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Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#31

Post by shreyansh_k »

This seems to be Beeper's insincere attempt at dressing up their grievances to appear as if they were in advantage of the [Apple's] customer.

Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. People who choose to invest in Android phones know they won't get access to iMessage.

It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason besides Apple's own choice, and that they know better than Apple on how to run Apple's business.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#32

Post by joshmanders »

aesh2Xa1 wrote: post #11
nocoiner wrote: post #4

Beeper CEO, from the article: "If there's enough pressure on Apple, they will have to quit messing with us." "Us," he clarified, meant both Apple's customers using iMessage and Android users trying to chat securely with iPhone friends. "That's who they're penalizing," he wrote. "It's not a Beeper vs. Apple fight, it's Apple versus customers." Not really sure how this is anti-customer. Apple customers have ample acces…

Apple has customers who want to use iMessage. Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users. That's pretty clear. If Apple's customers want to be able to use iMessage for such communications then (1) the Android user buys an Apple product, (2) a third party makes a cross-platform iMessage client, or (3) Apple open iMessage to other platforms. Apple is blocking on (2) and (3).

> Apple has customers who want to use iMessage. Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users.

I as a Signal user want to communicate securely with Facebook Messenger users. Therefore Facebook must allow me to reverse engineer their services and make unauthorized systems to allow me to create a service to send messages to Messenger users from Signal.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#33

Post by lotsofpulp »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16
aesh2Xa1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has customers who want to use iMessage. Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users. That's pretty clear. If Apple's customers want to be able to use iMessage for such communications then (1) the Android user buys an Apple product, (2) a third party makes a cross-platform iMessage client, or (3) Apple open iMessage to other platforms. Apple is blocking on (2) and (3).

> Apple has customers who want to use iMessage. Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users Of course they do. There's Signal and Telegram and WhatsApp. My principal benefit of iMessage is its relative lack of spam. (And when I do get spam, it gets stomped out fast.) Apple Music blitzkrieging Spotify is bullshit. The lock on subscription payments is bullshit. I happen to th…

>Apple Music blitzkrieging Spotify is bullshit.

What is this referencing?

>The lock on subscription payments is bullshit.

I pay for app subscriptions outside of the App store, since it is usually cheaper.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#34

Post by josephg »

unshavedyak wrote: post #21
nocoiner wrote: post #4

Beeper CEO, from the article: "If there's enough pressure on Apple, they will have to quit messing with us." "Us," he clarified, meant both Apple's customers using iMessage and Android users trying to chat securely with iPhone friends. "That's who they're penalizing," he wrote. "It's not a Beeper vs. Apple fight, it's Apple versus customers." Not really sure how this is anti-customer. Apple customers have ample acces…

> Apple customers have ample access to iMessage, after all. And as has been noted many, many times, there are many means of accessing secure cross-platform messaging. In fairness, i am a 5+ device apple customer and i can't use it on my two primary desktops. I use Beeper to write texts on my primary computer. Apple feels anti-me. I pay for products and unless i'm 100% into the ecosystem they fight me. Sure, they don'…

Yeah. I’ve got all sorts of Apple stuff in the house. One apple ecosystem piece I adore is being able to copy paste between my Apple devices. I’d love it if that worked from my Linux workstation too. C’mon, Apple.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#35

Post by qeternity »

echelon wrote: post #9
nocoiner wrote: post #4

Beeper CEO, from the article: "If there's enough pressure on Apple, they will have to quit messing with us." "Us," he clarified, meant both Apple's customers using iMessage and Android users trying to chat securely with iPhone friends. "That's who they're penalizing," he wrote. "It's not a Beeper vs. Apple fight, it's Apple versus customers." Not really sure how this is anti-customer. Apple customers have ample acces…

> Apple customers have ample access to iMessage, after all. It's not really fair that Apple gets to build snares around owning the most successful and important platform in modern civilization. This isn't an automobile where there are 50 alternative manufacturers, this is the "everything" device that handles your bills, employment, connections to loved ones, etc. And there's only one other choice of vendor in the Uni…

> This isn't an automobile where there are 50 alternative manufacturers

No, it’s exactly this. There are a ton of manufacturers all providing this product. It just so happens that Apple’s is one of the best, if not the best. And as has been mentioned, there are tons of secure messaging alternatives. It’s just that people prefer iMessage. This is not illegal or anticompetitive.

Imagine if someone claimed they should be let into an airport lounge of an airline they aren’t flying on, simply because their friends are there.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#36

Post by otachack »

nocoiner wrote: post #4

Beeper CEO, from the article: "If there's enough pressure on Apple, they will have to quit messing with us." "Us," he clarified, meant both Apple's customers using iMessage and Android users trying to chat securely with iPhone friends. "That's who they're penalizing," he wrote. "It's not a Beeper vs. Apple fight, it's Apple versus customers." Not really sure how this is anti-customer. Apple customers have ample acces…

Agreed on there being access to other encrypted messaging apps. But that doesn't account for "app-fatigue" where people are fed up with getting yet another application (think Zoom, Meet, Slack, Signal, Discord, etc) and thus you have friction on getting people to use a new app.

For example: I've tried to get friends and family on Telegram and only succeeded in getting a fraction of them. I also feel that they're using it just to appease me and don't use it with others.

SMS/MMS/RCS/iMessage have default apps on phones and people tend to not seek replacement or simply can't (iMessage) This is what Beeper is trying to fix by introducing an app just for Android users to connect with iMessage users, thus challenging the Apple walled garden.

I haven't jumped on the Beeper wagon because I don't know the consequences of this tug-o-war. Would I lose secure messages if the iMessage rug gets pulled out while my number is registered? It seems I would unless I deregister my number. It just seems too volatile to me but I'm a fan of Pebble and wish the Beeper team+founders the best. I'll be keeping my eye on this.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#37

Post by user_7832 »

shreyansh_k wrote: post #31

This seems to be Beeper's insincere attempt at dressing up their grievances to appear as if they were in advantage of the [Apple's] customer. Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. People who choose to invest in Android phones know they won't get access to iMessage. It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason…

> It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason besides Apple's own choice, and that they know better than Apple on how to run Apple's business.

It is simultaneously possible for it to appear entitled, while also recognizing how extremely restrictive, anti consumer and anti competition Apple is. And in this fight of a trillion dollar company vs something a little bigger than a startup, it's fun to root for the small guys who are hitting back at that restrictedness, sometimes even successfully.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#38

Post by out-of-ideas »

aesh2Xa1 wrote: post #11
nocoiner wrote: post #4

Beeper CEO, from the article: "If there's enough pressure on Apple, they will have to quit messing with us." "Us," he clarified, meant both Apple's customers using iMessage and Android users trying to chat securely with iPhone friends. "That's who they're penalizing," he wrote. "It's not a Beeper vs. Apple fight, it's Apple versus customers." Not really sure how this is anti-customer. Apple customers have ample acces…

Apple has customers who want to use iMessage. Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users. That's pretty clear. If Apple's customers want to be able to use iMessage for such communications then (1) the Android user buys an Apple product, (2) a third party makes a cross-platform iMessage client, or (3) Apple open iMessage to other platforms. Apple is blocking on (2) and (3).

dont forget to incude that a lot of folks do not realize that iMessage uses a different protocal for texting than simply texting; folks dont really always know or care about the program, they associate "icon" or "new version of icon" as texting, and use it to simply "send a text message"; not everybody is able to comprehend the difference between a simple "text message" and "imessage" vs other apps, ect

the advertisers/carriers also dont use "send an imessage" - its simply "unlimited texting" that gets stuck in folks brains (albeit i have not watched tv ads in some time, maybe its been updated to exact app names lol)

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#39

Post by dataangel »

shreyansh_k wrote: post #31

This seems to be Beeper's insincere attempt at dressing up their grievances to appear as if they were in advantage of the [Apple's] customer. Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. People who choose to invest in Android phones know they won't get access to iMessage. It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason…

It's not entitled, it's pushing back against a gigantic company exploiting network effects to create user lock-in, because that's easier than competing on the merit of your products.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#40

Post by JumpCrisscross »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #33
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has customers who want to use iMessage. Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users Of course they do. There's Signal and Telegram and WhatsApp. My principal benefit of iMessage is its relative lack of spam. (And when I do get spam, it gets stomped out fast.) Apple Music blitzkrieging Spotify is bullshit. The lock on subscription payments is bullshit. I happen to th…

>Apple Music blitzkrieging Spotify is bullshit. What is this referencing? >The lock on subscription payments is bullshit. I pay for app subscriptions outside of the App store, since it is usually cheaper.

> What is this referencing

Spotify launched on iOS. Apple saw them competing with iTunes and basically stole their idea to compete with them. That, alone, would be okay. But Apple Music is privileged within iOS and Apple's marketing in a way Spotify cannot be.

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