Intel CEO: 'The entire industry is motivated to eliminate the CUDA market' • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel CEO: 'The entire industry is motivated to eliminate the CUDA market'

#21

Post by anshumankmr » Thu, Dec 14, 2023, 7:07 PM UTC

cuda isn't just the cuda cores but also the parallel programming library that Nvidia developed (which runs under the hood for stuff like Tensforflow and Pytorch)

I dabbled a bit with it in college for a course

replacing it ain't gonna be easy (or even a desired thing for some)

Re: Intel CEO: 'The entire industry is motivated to eliminate the CUDA market'

#22

Post by poisonborz » Thu, Dec 14, 2023, 7:08 PM UTC

sbininit wrote: post #6

Sure, provide a 100% CUDA-compatible chip, then do the microsoft-style EEE.

Oracle: oh no, my precious API patents!

Re: Intel CEO: 'The entire industry is motivated to eliminate the CUDA market'

#23

Post by davesque » Thu, Dec 14, 2023, 7:08 PM UTC

Prove it. CUDA has dominated the GPGPU scene for years now. Competitors should have had plenty of time to catch up if they had wanted to.

Re: Intel CEO: 'The entire industry is motivated to eliminate the CUDA market'

#24

Post by fluxem » Thu, Dec 14, 2023, 7:09 PM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #19

bartwr wrote: post #16

If they create a better tool chain, ecosystem, and programming experience than CUDA and compatible with all computational platforms at their peak performance - awesome! Everyone wins! Until then, it's a bit funny claim, especially considering what a failure OpenCL was (programmer's experience and fading support). Or trying to do GPGPU with compute shaders in DX/GL/Vulkan. Are they really "motivated"? Because they had…

What's wrong with compute shaders ?

CUDA = C++ on GPUs. Compute shader - subset of C with a weird quirks.

Re: Intel CEO: 'The entire industry is motivated to eliminate the CUDA market'

#25

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 14, 2023, 7:10 PM UTC

sbininit wrote: post #6

Sure, provide a 100% CUDA-compatible chip, then do the microsoft-style EEE.

[deleted]

Re: Intel CEO: 'The entire industry is motivated to eliminate the CUDA market'

#26

Post by mi_lk » Thu, Dec 14, 2023, 7:14 PM UTC

brindlejim wrote: post #15

Fun fact: More than half of all engineers at NVIDIA are software engineers. Jensen has deliberately and strategically built a powerful software stack on top of his GPUs, and he's spent decades doing it. Until Intel finds a CEO who is as technical and strategic, as opposed to the bean-counters, I doubt that they will manage to organize a successful counterattack on CUDA.

You don't know Pat Gelsinger do you?

Re: Intel CEO: 'The entire industry is motivated to eliminate the CUDA market'

#27

Post by johncolanduoni » Thu, Dec 14, 2023, 7:14 PM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #19

bartwr wrote: post #16

If they create a better tool chain, ecosystem, and programming experience than CUDA and compatible with all computational platforms at their peak performance - awesome! Everyone wins! Until then, it's a bit funny claim, especially considering what a failure OpenCL was (programmer's experience and fading support). Or trying to do GPGPU with compute shaders in DX/GL/Vulkan. Are they really "motivated"? Because they had…

What's wrong with compute shaders ?

For GPGPU tasks, they lack a lot of useful features that CUDA has like the ability to allocate memory and launch kernels from the GPU. They also generally require you to write your GPU and CPU portions of an algorithm in different languages, while CUDA allows you to intermix your code and share data structures and simple functions between the two.

Re: Intel CEO: 'The entire industry is motivated to eliminate the CUDA market'

#28

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Dec 14, 2023, 7:14 PM UTC

sorenjan wrote: post #10

pjmlp wrote: post #3

Intel and AMD have had years to provide similar capabilities on top of OpenCL. Maybe they should look into their own failures first.

SYCL is a better analog to Cuda than OpenCL, and Intel have their own implementation of that. Don't really see anyone writing anything in SYCL though, and when I looked into trying it out it was a bit of a mess with different implementations, each supporting their own subset of OSs and hardware. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/tools/onea...

SYCL builds on top of OpenCL, it is basically the reboot of OpenCL C++, after OpenCL 2.0 SPIR failure.

Yet another example on how Intel and AMD failed to take up on CUDA.

Re: Intel CEO: 'The entire industry is motivated to eliminate the CUDA market'

#29

Post by datadrivenangel » Thu, Dec 14, 2023, 7:14 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #14

mckirk wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, further, return to sea. Exist as peaceful algae.

Coral, please. I don't want to be floating too much.

Go with the flow man.

Re: Intel CEO: 'The entire industry is motivated to eliminate the CUDA market'

#30

Post by bartwr » Thu, Dec 14, 2023, 7:15 PM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #19

bartwr wrote: post #16

If they create a better tool chain, ecosystem, and programming experience than CUDA and compatible with all computational platforms at their peak performance - awesome! Everyone wins! Until then, it's a bit funny claim, especially considering what a failure OpenCL was (programmer's experience and fading support). Or trying to do GPGPU with compute shaders in DX/GL/Vulkan. Are they really "motivated"? Because they had…

What's wrong with compute shaders ?

I shipped a dozen products with them (mostly video games), so there's nothing "wrong" that would make them unusable. But programming them and setting up the graphics pipe (and all the passes, structured buffers, compiling, binding, weird errors, and synchronization) is a huge PITA as compared to the convenience of CUDA. Compilers are way less mature, especially on some platforms cough. Some GPU capabilities are not exposed. No real composability or libraries. No proper debugging.