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Visualizing fighting game mechanics (2020)

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Re: Visualizing fighting game mechanics (2020)

#61

Post by Narishma »

dmonitor wrote: post #56
jncfhnb wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not like chess. Chess has much more entropy. Moves are made one at a time. There’s much, much more stateful considerations to the game. In fighting games only a handful of options are particularly relevant at any time. often times characters’ entire thing revolve around one move, like a fireball. It’s not to say that spamming fireball is a viable strategy, but all decisions need to be made in the context of…

>often times characters’ entire thing revolve around one move, like a fireball People absolutely hate when a character's entire thing revolves around one move. They're usually a low-tier character, and when they aren't low-tier they are just annoying to play against.

Only beginners tends to complain about that. It's usually extremely easy to deal with people who spam a single move.

Re: Visualizing fighting game mechanics (2020)

#62

Post by yamazakiwi »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #54
scubbo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully, printer ink (just about) remains cheaper than Magic cards.

You don't need printer ink. You can print them in grayscale, or cut some index cards to fit into sleeves and write the name of the card you want in pencil.

I use a bag of coins I've collected, each coin represents whatever card I need at the time.

Re: Visualizing fighting game mechanics (2020)

#63

Post by irobeth »

Narishma wrote: post #61
dmonitor wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>often times characters’ entire thing revolve around one move, like a fireball People absolutely hate when a character's entire thing revolves around one move. They're usually a low-tier character, and when they aren't low-tier they are just annoying to play against.

Only beginners tends to complain about that. It's usually extremely easy to deal with people who spam a single move.

one notable exception to this is the grappler archetype, where their 'close proximity command grab' is a massive tool which you always need to respect

the mere presence of the grappler causes a pressure on your decision-making process, since you always have to respect this option from them

but even here, the grappler has more tools than just 'grab you', they have an entire neutral kit still, as well as specials oriented around space control and 'trapping you' in the range where their grab is effective

Re: Visualizing fighting game mechanics (2020)

#64

Post by yamazakiwi »

Blackthorn wrote: post #50
SliceOfWaifu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motion inputs aren't arbitrarily difficult. They're intrinsically tied to the game's balance. Basic special uppercut moves like the Shoryuken use the forward->down->downforward motion to ensure the player cannot hold back to block during the motion. The player must commit to use their strong special uppercut move frames before they've actually unleashed it. Guile's Sonic Boom projectile requires the player to "charge…

Street fighter isn't bad at all but some games and some characters are just absurd for no particular reason. Ivy in later Soul Calibur games is a good example, she has two command throws with pointlessly arcane inputs that even have a second, better mode when you do them frame perfect. So everyone who plays Ivy just grinds and grinds until they can do it in their sleep. There's no particular balance reason for that (…

Conversely, characters like Carl Clover in BlazBlue. The difficulty of controlling 2 characters seperately but in tandem is challenging but not difficult to input inherently.

Once you get used to the input style the complexity makes the character and thus the game more fun and interesting.

Re: Visualizing fighting game mechanics (2020)

#65

Post by CocaKoala »

jncfhnb wrote: post #36
orbital-decay wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>once you are competent you know everything that opponent can do and the list of viable options is discrete and small with fairly standard flowcharts This can be applied to any high-skill competition, basically - from FPS to F-1.

Inevitably true on some level. Although I think card games and FGC share a deeper similarity on the number of discrete steps that one player will plan to execute ahead of time as a sequence. I’ve long imagined a fighting game where rather than combos, the receiving player has an array of defensive options that vary from trying to mitigate the damage, roll out, or seize the initiative back after each hit more like a k…

You're imagining the Guilty Gear series, which gives you a variety of defensive options in the system - you can jump, double jump, or super jump to avoid something with different take-off timings, jump arcs, and speeds; you can block, instant block, or faultless defend to change the amount of chip damage, block stun, and pushback in an effort to throw off your opponent's timing; you can dead angle while blocking to try and recover initiative; you can backdash or throw out a move that's invulnerable on startup in an attempt to get your opponent to whiff.

Re: Visualizing fighting game mechanics (2020)

#66

Post by jncfhnb »

dmonitor wrote: post #56
jncfhnb wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not like chess. Chess has much more entropy. Moves are made one at a time. There’s much, much more stateful considerations to the game. In fighting games only a handful of options are particularly relevant at any time. often times characters’ entire thing revolve around one move, like a fireball. It’s not to say that spamming fireball is a viable strategy, but all decisions need to be made in the context of…

>often times characters’ entire thing revolve around one move, like a fireball People absolutely hate when a character's entire thing revolves around one move. They're usually a low-tier character, and when they aren't low-tier they are just annoying to play against.

You didn’t read what I wrote

Re: Visualizing fighting game mechanics (2020)

#67

Post by ChainOfFools »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #2

I kind of noped out of the fighting game craze when they descended on the arcades in the 90's (?). To my eye they had abandoned the twitchy interactivity I had come to expect playing standard arcade games like Tempest, etc. Rather than a fire button and a spinner you had a joystick plus what amounted to a numpad of buttons. It seemed like maybe a game accountants or payroll managers would enjoy. (To this day, though…

I just cannot imagine investing the energy, time and resources, especially when you're a kid, with limited spending money, into these games that will just beat you down and take all of your money for weeks on end before you get even a moderate level of competitive skill.

I understand the attraction of mastering a difficult challenge for the sake of the challenge itself, but there's just too strong of a pragmatic streak in me to justify that challenge being something that doesn't generalize into any other aspect of life, and is almost completely a time sink. Plus a massive dose of what feels like an intoxicating and gratuitous level of violence and aggression, which I suppose one gets desensitized to after a while but I'm not sure that makes it any better. Always baffled me to see my otherwise quiet, good natured friends stand in front of these machines for hours when there were so many other, to my mind, more curiosity- inspiring games available at the time. To each their own I guess.

I chose to take up dance instead, and in addition to satisfying the need to master a difficult challenge, have greatly enjoyed the actual full body contact with one's erm, "sparring partners," that comes with it as well.

Re: Visualizing fighting game mechanics (2020)

#68

Post by jncfhnb »

CocaKoala wrote: post #65
jncfhnb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inevitably true on some level. Although I think card games and FGC share a deeper similarity on the number of discrete steps that one player will plan to execute ahead of time as a sequence. I’ve long imagined a fighting game where rather than combos, the receiving player has an array of defensive options that vary from trying to mitigate the damage, roll out, or seize the initiative back after each hit more like a k…

You're imagining the Guilty Gear series, which gives you a variety of defensive options in the system - you can jump, double jump, or super jump to avoid something with different take-off timings, jump arcs, and speeds; you can block, instant block, or faultless defend to change the amount of chip damage, block stun, and pushback in an effort to throw off your opponent's timing; you can dead angle while blocking to t…

Nah. Guilty Gear is cool but I mean fundamentally a fighting game with no hitstun.

Re: Visualizing fighting game mechanics (2020)

#69

Post by redrobein »

I'm a long time fighting game fan and recently discovered YOMI Hustle[1] a turn based fighting game. I think it works really well for teaching fighting game mechanics, strategy etc., whilst not having to worry about the execution of the moves itself. It's pretty fun, and there's an old version free on itch with multiplayer support. I recommend trying.

[1] https://ivysly.itch.io/your-only-move-is-hustle

Re: Visualizing fighting game mechanics (2020)

#70

Post by OkayPhysicist »

jncfhnb wrote: post #13
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had never thought of it as something closer to a fast-paced Magic, the Gathering Very confused how you got that impression from this article. The cards are a just a way to visualize information. Fighting games don't play like a fast-paced card game, they are fundamentally different.

Hmm no they kind of do. The basic insight with most fighting games is that once you are competent you know everything that opponent can do and the list of viable options is discrete and small with fairly standard flowcharts. Tekken is a bit more nebulous than this.

Fencing is the same way, especially foil. I personally find the lower levels of olympic play the most interesting, because by the time you get to the semifinals and finals, most of the competitors have surpassed human reaction speed. At that point, the game boils down to a lightning fast game of rock-paper-scissors.

Each fencer basically decides whether they're going to make a straight lunge, a parry-riposte, or a disengage-lunge. A straight attack loses to a parry, a parry loses to a disengage, a disengage will lose to a straight attach due to right-of-way.

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