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You Don't Batch Cook When You're Suicidal (2020)

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Re: You Don't Batch Cook When You're Suicidal (2020)

#291

Post by WendyTheWillow »

yawpitch wrote: post #287
WendyTheWillow wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, you rely on the utterly false notion of a "zero-sum" economy, when in fact it may only be possible to pull everyone out of poverty if we allow people to be proportionately rewarded for their contributions.

That _may_ be true (though the fact that we _have long_ allowed them such rewards and they certainly have not pulled everyone out of poverty seems to auger against that hypothesis) until you prove that conclusively, however, we should continue to proportionally tax them on their earnings.

"Prove conclusively" is not how any of this works.

Re: You Don't Batch Cook When You're Suicidal (2020)

#292

Post by hasty_pudding »

cptSparrow wrote: post #281
hasty_pudding wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Her brothers escape from poverty is to literally face death on the battlefield. Not sure thats a better option.

He could be a mechanic. It’s really the decision to estrange her next of kin that I find ridiculous. Pretty sad that this got flagged. I guess saying women like her are destroying western society comes off as sexist? But they are the responsible party, at least primarily, for the rise in single parent families. Idek.

[flagged]

Re: You Don't Batch Cook When You're Suicidal (2020)

#293

Post by beacon294 »

yawpitch wrote: post #266
WendyTheWillow wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a lot of people would be very wrong. There’s a floor to survivability, below which you can’t keep yourself alive, but there is no ceiling. If everyone is above the floor, there’s no reason for concern about those looking for the ceiling. In the future we’ll pull people up to the floor, but that doesn’t require attaching a ceiling. The will never be a successful society that substantially punishes achievement abov…

> In the future we’ll pull people up to the floor, but that doesn’t require attaching a ceiling. It absolutely does, right up until the exact future moment when EVERYONE is pulled up above (well above) the (bottom) floor. In other words no one should be at liberty to seek the ceiling until EVERYONE is out of the basement. > The will never be a successful society that substantially punishes achievement above a certain…

> In other words no one should be at liberty to seek the ceiling until EVERYONE is out of the basement.

Can you explain your reasoning?

Re: You Don't Batch Cook When You're Suicidal (2020)

#294

Post by thaumasiotes »

avgcorrection wrote: post #134
thaumasiotes wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously it’s a lottery to the BABY. You say that like the same baby might conceivably have been born into more than one potential family. But the opposite is true: examine any baby and you'll find that there's only one possible set of parents they can have, barring identical twins.

Oh my god. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/original-position/

Are you saying that the family it is born into is a lottery to the baby, or that you wish we would pretend that it is?

Re: You Don't Batch Cook When You're Suicidal (2020)

#295

Post by andrei_says_ »

thiago_fm wrote: post #70

That's one big paradox. Coming from poverty, I work with plenty of talented people, but nowhere as talented as the people I've studied in shitty schools. Now most of those people from my poverty times continue to be poor, because of many problems poverty brought to them. I can clearly see that, and that I was the lucky one to find a way up many times. Yet, my new social circle believe that I'm talented because of my…

Associating wealth with discipline and virtue is a successful propaganda campaign with framing rooted in strict father / conservative worldview.

Per George Lakoff (full interview: https://newsarchive.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10... )

The conservative worldview, the strict father model, assumes that the world is dangerous and difficult and that children are born bad and must be made good. The strict father is the moral authority who supports and defends the family, tells his wife what to do, and teaches his kids right from wrong. The only way to do that is through painful discipline - physical punishment that by adulthood will become internal discipline. The good people are the disciplined people. Once grown, the self-reliant, disciplined children are on their own. Those children who remain dependent (who were spoiled, overly willful, or recalcitrant) should be forced to undergo further discipline or be cut free with no support to face the discipline of the outside world.

So, project this onto the nation and you see that to the right wing, the good citizens are the disciplined ones - those who have already become wealthy or at least self-reliant - and those who are on the way. Social programs, meanwhile, "spoil" people by giving them things they haven't earned and keeping them dependent. The government is there only to protect the nation, maintain order, administer justice (punishment), and to provide for the promotion and orderly conduct of business. In this way, disciplined people become self-reliant. Wealth is a measure of discipline. Taxes beyond the minimum needed for such government take away from the good, disciplined people rewards that they have earned and spend it on those who have not earned it.

Re: You Don't Batch Cook When You're Suicidal (2020)

#296

Post by aurareturn »

bbor wrote: post #176
aurareturn wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Some people are indeed much better. At what? I consider myself a quick thinker and generally high IQ. But my sister has a way of connecting with children that I will never be able to replicate. So who is "much better"? And at what?

High IQ. I don’t believe in IQ but the commenters above are discussing inherent talents that our society chooses to reward. Ps, I personally don’t find “I’m smarter than you but at least you can do X” to be a super comforting thing. I’m sure that comment makes sense in your context with your sister, but I definitely bristle whenever I read it. Smacks of prideful engineers & scientists trying to appear nice while stil…

  but I definitely bristle whenever I read it. Smacks of prideful engineers & scientists trying to appear nice while still affirming their base insecurities about being superior to others.
Growing up, my sister had better grades than me and was tutoring me in math.

  inherent talents that our society chooses to reward
Society doesn't work if we can't raise children.

Re: You Don't Batch Cook When You're Suicidal (2020)

#297

Post by kapp_in_life »

roflyear wrote: post #261
fngjdflmdflg wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The correlation of IQ with income is 0.30[0]. Educational attainment is 0.32. So if you are intelligent (talented) or educated then you are statistically likely to have above average income. If you have both even more so. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602... ( https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.intell.2007.02.... ) page 5 table 1.

IQ tests are not exactly designed for poor people, eh?

Are they not? Most I've seen tend to be sorts of abstract pattern matching things. As opposed to basing IQ on ability to play piano or other traits less prevalent in poor communities.

Obviously nothing is perfect but it seems disingenuous to claim they're not designed for poor people to be able to complete them.

Re: You Don't Batch Cook When You're Suicidal (2020)

#299

Post by Mainan_Tagonist »

thuuuomas wrote: post #60
Mainan_Tagonist wrote: post #35

Humm, I have a feeling part of the story is missing here, even though i can relate as i was myself a minimum wage worker in the hospitality industry in Britain for a while (back in 1999, my annual wage was something like 8500 pounds). Long odd hours, not so pleasant interfacing with customers, 7 people sharing a flat in London, so broke at the end of the month that walking from Mayfair to Canada Water was reality bec…

“This account of misery likely conceals the reasons that the author, in my estimation, would deserve their suffering.”

deserve?

No one deserves suffering...

your comment is in bad faith, no point discussing this any further with you...

Re: You Don't Batch Cook When You're Suicidal (2020)

#300

Post by lwhi »

WendyTheWillow wrote: post #290
yawpitch wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Jimmy only ever prototyped the pencil by collecting and working the wood and graphite himself then, sure, he didn’t exploit anyone… as soon as he went into business employing others to manufacture those pencils he started to. The moment he concentrated the means of pencil production in his own hands he started to exploit both his raw suppliers — that graphite miner’s health woes are the fruit of Jimmy’s demand — a…

Jimmy didn't do any of those things. The claim was that Jimmy can't produce value, but he did. And even so, the work the people making the pencils for Jimmy would not exist without Jimmy. Jimmy, in yet another way, provides value. Jimmy figured out to put the wood with the graphite, not them. Who actually does it is irrelevant; or are you suggesting that if Jimmy kept his operation entirely mechanical, that'd be bett…

You don't need to resort to extremely basic non-real world examples to show how capitalism works out when we live in a world full of capitalism.

Just because something seems like it _should_ be possible, doesn't mean that other worse consequences won't manifest.

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