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Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

bloomberg.com

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Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#201

Post by darknavi »

AYBABTME wrote: post #78

Autopilot is already trigger happy and turning off for nothing, this will kill the value of using it. It's already quite annoying to have to do more dumb performative work to use Autopilot than to use a legacy radar based cruise control with lane keeping... At the end of the day, even with FSD the software isn't good enough to be more than a glorified lane keeping adaptive cruise control, but it's more annoyingly sta…

That's odd. I've had AP and FSD disable abruptly a hand full of times in the last five years on our Model 3 and Model Y. It will happily chime at me if it thinks I am looking at my phone or something, but it is just doing the blue strobe + audible chime, not completely disabling.

From my experience if FSD/AP turns off without me turning it off, it makes sounds that seem like the whole airplane is going to crash. Same with lane departure warnings.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#202

Post by dzhiurgis »

lesuorac wrote: post #166
adamsb6 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most states no training at all is required to operate a boat, and I don’t think there are any specific requirements around autopilot. The earliest autopilot for boats was built in the 1800s.

Which states are you referring to? Locally you need a certificate for motorized craft and it seems like almost every other state is in this situation. You can get the certificate after taking training but I imagine there is some way to test out of it. -- The training doesn't need to be months long though. Try renting a jet-ski; they'll give you a very quick training but it's still present. Although jet-skis are proba…

Sweden and New Zealand doesn't require any licence to operate a boat which is great. But try leaving marina without any experience and your boat neighbour will stop ya or at least help you get your feet wet.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#203

Post by dzhiurgis »

matsemann wrote: post #98
kbos87 wrote: post #11

The details are scant, but it sounds like the vehicle is going to be quicker to disable autopilot if it thinks you aren’t paying attention. I’m curious to see what this amounts to because Autopilot is already pretty sensitive to this. Pick up your phone or look away from the road for more than a few seconds and the in-cabin car notices and warns you. I don’t know of a comparable system in any car with self driving or…

Who picks up their phone while driving? Or looks away for a few seconds? If you're driving 80 kph and looks away for three and a half second, that's basically 80 meters of movement where you didn't see anything. Just crazy.

Most people. Easier on Autopilot for sure and I'm quite happy it's already so naggy. Even when you ARE paying attention it would be too easy to let your mind drift away if it wasn't nagging you enough.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#204

Post by dzhiurgis »

rabbits_2002 wrote: post #41

unrelated, but does anyone else start to panic in autonomous vehicles? Every time I have been in a Tesla with autopilot on I immediately feel dread and and impending doom and I get very anxious.

I drove 700km this weekend. All I had to do is jiggle the steering wheel a couple of times.

There's just no going back from this.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#205

Post by FireBeyond »

freedomben wrote: post #28

I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse." These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus o…

> is that the system is made to be ultra cautious and thus has a lot of false positives. For example, if I put my backpack on the passenger seat

Given that FMVSS 208 mandates passenger occupation detection at 35lbs for seat belts, and 65lbs for airbags, I'm not sure what you're expecting from the system. How is it meant to differentiate between a 35lb backpack and a 35lb child?

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#206

Post by FireBeyond »

genocidicbunny wrote: post #164
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lada Niva

From what I recall reading recently, the most recent models are cheap Chinese-made cars with the bare minimum of attention and QC put into them. Like, frame welded with spot welds that can be pulled apart by hand kind of issues.

Let's not just throw that in the box of "cheap Chinese". Tesla has shipped cars with windshields not attached to the vehicle in any way, has shipped cars with missing brake pads, etc.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#207

Post by FireBeyond »

peteradio wrote: post #32
freedomben wrote: post #28

I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse." These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus o…

Agreed. I heard a story about a guy who is used to chewing tobacco while driving and would crack open the door and spit while moving at speed. He tried doing this in his son's new jeep and the car immediately slammed on the brakes and nearly caused an accident. Obviously cracking the door to spit out the bottom isn't too safe but slamming on the brakes? What why?

Paramedic here. We have to restrain all of our psych/behavioral patients, even ones who are calm, cooperative, medicated, and are really just being moved from facility to facility.

Why? Because someone at some point has attempted to exit a vehicle moving at speed.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#209

Post by jjav »

ceejayoz wrote: post #84
peteradio wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an emergency maneuver where you are trying to land an out of control vehicle, don't really see how it applies to the above scenario. So no its still not safe but neither is having no brakes.

A door opening on the highway is an emergency scenario, too. The car is correct to go “what the fuck?!”

> A door opening on the highway is an emergency scenario, too.

It is absolutely not, that's a silly claim. Go and push open your door on the highway, nothing much will happen. Wind will push it back, it'll mostly close and you can keep driving that way all day if you like.

Sure it's not the normal way to drive, but there's nothing dramatic about it, let alone "emergency".

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#210

Post by jjav »

B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #187
freedomben wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah agreed, I'm not against all safety features. That one seems like a pretty straight forward safety solution though. If an auto transmission is still in gear, the parking break is on, and the key fob has left the vehicle, I think an attention-getting noise is appropriate in that case.

I was going for the Darwin with a 2007 model, still uses ignition key, fob is only for remote locks. But yeah, I've been spoiled by modern fobs you don't even take out of your pocket. I really like those, that's the kind of convenience that makes you sign up for robot overlords ...

> I really like those, that's the kind of convenience that makes you sign up for robot overlords

These can be super annoying. My partner has a car which just spontaneously unlocks whenever the key approaches. Which is ridiculous since often I'm just walking to the mailbox or out to a different car and have zero desire to unlock that particular car.

It just assumes, without understanding what I'm actually doing. Which is the fundamental UX problem with all these misfeatures.

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