I don't think I've ever seen a tradesperson wearing PPE. Recent example: our neighbor had some stonework done, and these guys were just casually hanging out in clouds of cement and stone dust.
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Australia to ban engineered stone
11–20 of 542 posts
Re: Australia to ban engineered stone
#12I'm not a huge fan of government overreach like this. Workers should have refused to work with the material if it were truly dangerous, and the free market would have eventually pushed engineered stone out, giving way to innovation for a better, safer material.
You are confused. This is a severe health risk which has already destroyed peoples lives, not an issue of theoretical economics, hence you got downvoted. Government is doing its job. Better and safer materials already exist.
Re: Australia to ban engineered stone
#13I don't think I've ever seen a tradesperson wearing PPE. Recent example: our neighbor had some stonework done, and these guys were just casually hanging out in clouds of cement and stone dust.
Wearing PPE is miserable. The respiratory masks that reliably keep silica out of your lungs are painful. My job involves working with silica powders and I can really only handle about 20-30 minutes decked out in my bunny suit, respirator, over eye goggles, gloves and disposable sleeves before I need to take a break for air. This is in a climate controlled environment with a minimally physical set of tasks.
Having workers wear PPE is the worst, last resort form of protection. Solutions like switching to safer materials and improving ventilation work much better in practice.
Re: Australia to ban engineered stone
#14I'm not a huge fan of government overreach like this. Workers should have refused to work with the material if it were truly dangerous, and the free market would have eventually pushed engineered stone out, giving way to innovation for a better, safer material.
You're saying a worker should just quit their job on the spot...? And pay for rent and food....how...?
You get it - when someone is hand to mouth, their theoretical market freedoms are pretty limited, particularly in this field when everyone else is using the same materials.
Re: Australia to ban engineered stone
#15I'm not a huge fan of government overreach like this. Workers should have refused to work with the material if it were truly dangerous, and the free market would have eventually pushed engineered stone out, giving way to innovation for a better, safer material.
Well, if you call it "government overreach" it's hard to be a fan.
> Workers should have refused to work with the material if it were truly dangerous, and the free market would have eventually pushed engineered stone out, giving way to innovation for a better, safer material.
I think you need to consider this from a game theory perspective. Sometimes there are systemic negative outcomes that can only be addressed with systemic mitigations. Governments/the law serve a purpose by establishing the ground rules in which the market operates. How you structure those rules changes systemic outcomes.
Without the ground rules, UFC would devolve into people just shooting each other.
Re: Australia to ban engineered stone
#16I don't think I've ever seen a tradesperson wearing PPE. Recent example: our neighbor had some stonework done, and these guys were just casually hanging out in clouds of cement and stone dust.
Wearing PPE is miserable. The respiratory masks that reliably keep silica out of your lungs are painful. My job involves working with silica powders and I can really only handle about 20-30 minutes decked out in my bunny suit, respirator, over eye goggles, gloves and disposable sleeves before I need to take a break for air. This is in a climate controlled environment with a minimally physical set of tasks. Having wor…
> Wearing PPE is miserable. The respiratory masks that reliably keep silica out of your lungs are painful.
I completely disagree. Is it less comfortable than not wearing a mask? For sure. Do I consider it a burden to wear a P100 respirator when dealing with silica? Nope.
Re: Australia to ban engineered stone
#17Seems like you should ban the manufacturing methods, not the end product. Like, if I invent a way to safely manufacture and do on-site adjustments of engineered stone, shouldn't I be rewarded by the market for it? The material itself is not harmful, just breathing the dust of it is, which can be said of a lot of things in a common household.
Re: Australia to ban engineered stone
#18> Earlier this year workplace ministers tasked Safe Work Australia, a government WHS agency, with investigating how a ban could work and whether low-silica engineered stone could remain on the market safely.
> The report found there was no safe level of silica, concluding: "The use of all engineered stone should be prohibited."
I don't understand this logic. Silica is also present in natural stone too! If they are not going to ban natural stone countertops, I don't get why the industry was not allowed to pursue low-silica engineered stone that met or exceeded real stone.
Re: Australia to ban engineered stone
#19I'm not a huge fan of government overreach like this. Workers should have refused to work with the material if it were truly dangerous, and the free market would have eventually pushed engineered stone out, giving way to innovation for a better, safer material.
Did you get raised reading only economic and game theory texts? Real people in the real world don't have as much agency as you'd like to think. Sometimes you take the job that you can get. See Amazon warehouse workers.
Re: Australia to ban engineered stone
#20Seems like you should ban the manufacturing methods, not the end product. Like, if I invent a way to safely manufacture and do on-site adjustments of engineered stone, shouldn't I be rewarded by the market for it? The material itself is not harmful, just breathing the dust of it is, which can be said of a lot of things in a common household.
Do you think that folks will install it on site without cutting it?