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GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

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Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#401

Post by seanmcdirmid »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #364
hedora wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an i3, pre-carplay, and I like that the computer works well with just a jog wheel. It has a navigate to charger feature that works reasonably well (though there are too many steps to “only show fast chargers”, and many stations are broken, though hopefully the tesla supercharger deal will fix that…) Range estimates seem to be accurate, unlike Tesla’s high-balling. Anyway, I’m hoping they can do at least that w…

The navigate to charger lotion in BMW maps is just too hard to bother with. It’s almost better tk just ask siri to navigate to a charger of some kind. The jog wheel is nice, but I get away with voice for most functions. I hope it improves over time, especially the random GPS bug that displaces you by 100 meters and makes navigation useless.

(I'm still mostly happy with my i4, but I knew what I was trading off)

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#402

Post by seanmcdirmid »

tirant wrote: post #245
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a BMW i4, not a Tesla 3, so this is just my comparison. But Tesla software works really well, they have navigation to chargers, something that doesn’t really work in the BMW, you are pretty much on your own. They have sentinal mode, and it actually doesn’t suck like BMW’s drive recorder does. You can open your car with your phone, like for real via UWB, not just some NFC thing that works only in one place, o…

I also own an i4 and I still prefer its navigation system to Google Maps or Tesla. Navigating to chargers works perfectly, and it notifies you in realtime if for some reason it gets occupied. Yes, Tesla sentry mode is really good, but I really cannot live without a parking front and lateral cameras in the narrow streets of Europe. Specially without a working PDC system. I’m very happy with my i4, best car I’ve ever o…

I too appreciate my parking cameras given the tight parking situation I have here in urban Seattle. It is also sorely needed because the i4 is a huge compact while I was used to parking a smaller sub-compact.

BMW navigation system is not very good for my needs. Maybe it is just better suited to Europe? That would explain the German-accented English it uses :). Our charging networks are so few and so saturated here in the PNW that it probably wouldn't mean much anyways.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#403

Post by SauciestGNU »

foobazgt wrote: post #166
dreamcompiler wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect they don't want to pay what great software engineers cost, and even if they did, most such engineers probably wouldn't want to put up with GM's bureaucracy. It's probably kinda the same story with great mechanical and industrial engineers, which is why approximately nobody finds GM cars exciting.

Many years ago, I discussed possible employment with a major head unit manufacturer. They were very excited about modernizing but basically stunned into silence when I mentioned typical senior FAANG pay. I'd be surprised if things have changed much.

Sitting here in Michigan I still see auto company software positions sometimes that are mid/late career positions and pay under 100k. The legacy auto industry really doesn't get it. And now GM is forcing RTO, so I expect they'll lose more talent and have a harder time attracting engineers.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#404

Post by rcxdude »

nfRfqX5n wrote: post #318
tarsinge wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vehicle manufacturers are not (edit: end-user/OS) software companies, it doesn't make sense (or for any company for which it's not the core business) to build their own OS. Yes OS builders control the OS by definition. What's next, car manufacturers producing music so they get control back on what drivers listen to?

sure they are. there's a ton of software running in cars outside of the infotainment system

There's a lot of software, but their business is making and selling hardware. That almost always leads to the business viewing software as an afterthought and a cost center. Embedded is absolutely rife with this and the quality is often awful as a result (yes, even in safety critical applications)

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#405

Post by TradingPlaces »

https://www.wsj.com/video/ford-ceo-on-apple-google-and-elon-...

Transcript:

WSJ Joanna Stern: GM recently announced that it's ditching Apple CarPlay.

Ford CEO Jim Farley: Yeah, how about that?

JS: How about that? How does Ford think about this? I mean, are you going to follow suit?

JF: Okay, so I guess you've got two camps in the software interior car OEMs. Tesla, and now it turns out GM, and then others. We're in this other group. I think the first three software shippable content that's going to be cool for customers is not the interior digital experience. Although that will always be super important because it's a safety critical device and there's going to be a lot more going on inside a car than your phone. So the interior has to be really well done. But in terms of content, we kind of lost that battle 10 years ago. So get real with it because you're not going to make a ton of money on content inside the vehicle. It's going to be safety, security, partial autonomy, and productivity in our eyes. So that relationship for content is between you, the Wall Street Journal, and the customer. I don't want to get in the middle of that, but Tesla and other companies believe differently. They want to have a complete control over the interior experience, and we don't think it's differentiating. 70% of our Ford customers in the U.S. are Apple customers. Why would I go to an Apple customer and say, "Good luck"? That doesn't seem customer-centric. And Apple does a really good job.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#406

Post by threatofrain »

tirant wrote: post #285
threatofrain wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately consumers don't really punish companies for doing these kinds of things, at least I presume that's the story since high-end cars often have very shitty in-car computer experiences, like BMW or Porsche.

BMW infotainment system has been considered the bet in the market for a long time. Far from shitty experience.

How would you compare that with Tesla? For high end cars, I mentally compare in car compute UX to using an iPad and Tesla was the first car company that impressed me. BMW does not belong on the same tier.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#407

Post by wwweston »

viraptor wrote: post #190
wwweston wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or an aux jack

You mean a dongle to aux jack, because that's a new phone. I can also not use a cable and turn the volume up to max. Either way, that's a workaround for something that's actually broken and could be fixed with a software update.

> You mean a dongle to aux jack, because that's a new phone.

Yes, that's the way most phones have gone.

> I can also not use a cable and turn the volume up to max.

My experience with 1/8" connections is that you have two means to change the volume, the one on the source and the one on the destination. There can be some issues with driving both hot (or one hot and one weak), but you set the destination in the modest middle and it works just fine.

> Either way, that's a workaround for something that's actually broken and could be fixed with a software update.

"Workaround" is the wrong way to refer to a "just works" physical standard that functioned reliably and adequately for decades without any need for continued attention / updates.

Especially when comparing it to a sand-castle software stack.

Wireless audio protocols have a few nice situational advantages, but they have not yet really reached a point where they're suitable outright replacements, and short of attaining wireless power combined with an utterly boring level of commodified stability, it's possible they won't get there.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#408

Post by mulmen »

frumper wrote: post #368
mulmen wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but who wants that? GM could be right that people want a car that hasn’t been enshittified. The problem with chasing $25bn in subscription fees is you don’t know the opportunity cost of alienating your customer base.

> GM alone hoping to make as much as $25 billion per year just off subscriptions by 2030. They think they’ll make $25B themselves. They also want your data.

Oh, yeah, that’s worse.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#409

Post by jwells89 »

tristan957 wrote: post #395
jwells89 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly would insist on it. CarPlay and its Android counterpart are a far sight better than the infotainment systems the majority of cars ship with to begin with, plus they won’t have problems like their navigation data becoming outdated with updates costing money. My car dash should be the “dumb TV” to my phone’s “streaming box”.

What is the benefit of CarPlay or Android Auto if you have Bluetooth audio? Navigation and music go through the car's speakers.

Visuals for navigation, a bigger screen that can be more easily viewed while sitting upright in the driver’s seat, and UI that’s designed for use while driving.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#410

Post by xnx »

bastard_op wrote: post #156

Automobile companies tried for years to make a decent infotainment system in cars, and almost universally they were all terrible no matter how expensive the vehicle. Finally Android Auto and CarPlay gave everyone what they wanted - decent access to music on their phone, call capabilities that actually work, and program integration with things they actually use with internet service they already have. Then manufacture…

Modern cars are of such high quality that they are largely commodity, even moreso with the switch to electric drivetrains. Margins on the hardware will continue to decrease, and automakers will be desperate to recoup revenue through digital and subscription services. The problem is that traditional automakers are way out of their league. GM has a lot more in common with Foxconn than it does Apple or Google.
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