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Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

bloomberg.com

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Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#71

Post by semiquaver »

Closi wrote: post #55
fundatus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not comparable at all. Airplanes are flown by trained professionals who know exactly what Autopilot can and cannot do. Regular consumers don't know these differences though and Tesla deliberately uses this ambiguity to deceive their own customers, who expect a "fully self driving" car.

And we don't expect drivers to be adequately trained and get a licence? I disagree with calling the top level of Autopilot "FSD" by the way - I think that is misleading. But Autopilot - I think that's a fair term personally considering the context and historical use.

Do the driving licensure requirements in any state require knowing what the capabilities of Tesla Autopilot are?

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#72

Post by peteradio »

Cacti wrote: post #42
peteradio wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I heard a story about a guy who is used to chewing tobacco while driving and would crack open the door and spit while moving at speed. He tried doing this in his son's new jeep and the car immediately slammed on the brakes and nearly caused an accident. Obviously cracking the door to spit out the bottom isn't too safe but slamming on the brakes? What why?

What exactly is the issue? That the guy has been recklessly opening his car door, while driving it, at speed, for his entire life?

The issue is that its not safe to activate the emergency brake at highway speeds. It seems like an anti-safety feature.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#73

Post by jorvi »

brookst wrote: post #25
gwd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But "recall" means "calling back"; normally it means having to actually send a physical replacement. Consider three possible problems with autopilot: 1. There's a structural issue that affects camera systems which can't be fixed in a shop; for instance, something which may cause the camera to come loose which results in blind spots, that's due to the structural issue of the car itself. Tesla has to replace 2 million…

Just like “bit” is a term of art in computer science that means something different than “bit” in vernacular language, “recall” has a specific meaning in the automotive industry. A recall is a mandatory fix that the manufacturer is obligated to provide at no charge and to proactively notify customers of. It comes with reporting obligations and long term warranty implications. It might be that industries should not re…

> It might be that industries should not reuse common words, but IMO it’s a little silly to insist that they only use the most literal and etymologically correct terms for each individual action rather than defining categories that have clear meanings even if a specific action doesn’t perfectly match the most literal reading of the name of the category.

I am not so sure. Take Linux kernel log levels:

0 = emergency

1 = alert

2 = critical

3 = error

4 = warning

As soon as I saw this I showed it to multiple people, and none of them understand how a log level of "alert" can be more severe than "critical". Now, there is probably some greybeards that decided these words way way back and we decided to stuck with them. But if you tell someone "damn, the kernel is giving off alerts", their thought will be "well, at least the system isn't in a critical state or erroring out, right?".

Intuition matters.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#74

Post by kortilla »

fundatus wrote: post #23
Closi wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same logic you could say that airplanes shouldn't call their pilot assist system "Autopilot" either, because it requires monitoring and input from pilots who will need to disengage the system and intervene/fly manually in certain scenarios. Autopilot is probably actually quite a good term for it if you actually compare it to a plane Autopilot - you don't expect pilots to be inattentive or away from the control…

Not comparable at all. Airplanes are flown by trained professionals who know exactly what Autopilot can and cannot do. Regular consumers don't know these differences though and Tesla deliberately uses this ambiguity to deceive their own customers, who expect a "fully self driving" car.

“People are morons” is not a justification for claiming they aren’t equivalent when they are.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#75

Post by ceejayoz »

peteradio wrote: post #72
Cacti wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is the issue? That the guy has been recklessly opening his car door, while driving it, at speed, for his entire life?

The issue is that its not safe to activate the emergency brake at highway speeds. It seems like an anti-safety feature.

Isn’t it recommended in a brake failure situation? Car to neutral, engage emergency brake.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#76

Post by trilbyglens »

freedomben wrote: post #28

I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse." These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus o…

This reenforces my instinct to buy the dumbest thing on the market.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#78

Post by AYBABTME »

Autopilot is already trigger happy and turning off for nothing, this will kill the value of using it. It's already quite annoying to have to do more dumb performative work to use Autopilot than to use a legacy radar based cruise control with lane keeping... At the end of the day, even with FSD the software isn't good enough to be more than a glorified lane keeping adaptive cruise control, but it's more annoyingly starring at your eyeballs than dumber cars. And now I guess it'll be worse?

My Model Y turned off FSD when I was fully engaged, but with my head tilted sideways. It wants me to sit in a particular way and have my head straight for some reason. It's really annoying.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#79

Post by newaccount74 »

Closi wrote: post #55
fundatus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not comparable at all. Airplanes are flown by trained professionals who know exactly what Autopilot can and cannot do. Regular consumers don't know these differences though and Tesla deliberately uses this ambiguity to deceive their own customers, who expect a "fully self driving" car.

And we don't expect drivers to be adequately trained and get a licence? I disagree with calling the top level of Autopilot "FSD" by the way - I think that is misleading. But Autopilot - I think that's a fair term personally considering the context and historical use.

Drivers do not need to get training and a license for driver assistance software.

Pilots need to get training and certification for autopilot before they can use it.

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