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GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

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Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is the exception here: they seem to have mastered making a car software experience that doesn’t suck, and they don’t even support CarPlay. But Tesla is a tech/software company that happens to make cars (of dubious build quality), I don’t think conventional automakers can replicate that.

My impression of Tesla (from driving a friend's, who is a massive Tesla fan) is that I get the feeling that the systems aren't as clever as they think they are, and it led to some "interesting" (actually downright scary and dangerous) experiences with the driver assist functions on a long distance drive we did. It wasn't the full Autopilot, just the lane following/adaptive cruise control kind of thing but we almost d…

> It wasn't the full Autopilot, just the lane following/adaptive cruise control kind of thing but we almost did go off the road at least once.

Your friend should have warned you that there are conditions where AP is expected not to work well, they're also clearly stated in the manual. I tend to agree that Tesla oversells the AP/FSD functionality just by the name, AP should be renamed to "vision lane assist", or something along those lines.

> But in general with the UI, there was a lot of, "Hey, how do I do [elementary car function]" and he'd be like "Oh I think they changed that [or moved it in the menu] in the last update, uh let me have a look"...

As an M3 2019 owner, I recall 2 instances since 2019 where stuff was moved around a lot, otherwise it's pretty stable.

While the first big update sacrificed some navigator real estate space for non-FSD users as well, it also grouped speed, speed limit and AP limit better at the top left corner, which used to be placed further away (now I don't need to turn my head anymore, I just glance bottom-right). The second one introduced dynamic tiles at the bottom for the less used stuff (things which were otherwise hidden behind non-intuitive areas, like the T Tesla logo at the top center of the screen).

After 6~10mo ago (can't recall) they grouped all car commands in the same panel when you bring up the settings to make it easier and more consistent to access those when required.

UI has gotten much snappier since I got the car, even though it's still running on a very low-end Intel Atom chip.

My feeling is that some breakage is sometimes required to achieve better solutions, and while there's the usual outrage of "changing my workflow" ® in the beginning, Tesla UI updates are usually for the better in the long run.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an observation point - I drive a company car (a BMW) and will be looking for a new car next year. I would not even considers Volvo until they support wireless CarPlay. GM must very much believe in appeal of their car to piss off android and iOS users simultaneously.

I have wireless android auto with a built in conveniently placed holder for the phone that does wireless charging, and 95% of the time I still plug the phone in anyway. Not really sure why!

My wireless degrades music quality very noticeably - really annoying. I have a crappy dongle though, not sure if that's the case with all wireless.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#293
> GM is now claiming that Apple CarPlay and Android Auto actually cause safety issues.

I remember when I first saw these in-cockpit infotainment mobile integrations deployed and thinking "man, that's dangerous". I have a car with physical buttons, and even then I struggle to dial numbers for example whilst driving.

> And when CarPlay and Android Auto have issues, drivers pick up their phones again, taking their eyes off the road and totally defeating the purpose of these phone-mirroring programs.

A number of times I have had to pull up at the side of the road just to get bluetooth music playing correctly. I dread to think how people solve that whilst driving. This software is for sure dangerously awful.

> Essentially, the thinking is that if a car’s in-built infotainment system is good enough, drivers will be less likely to use their phone for what they’re trying to do while they’re behind the wheel, — though Babbitt admits that GM hasn’t exactly tested this in a controlled setting to see whether or not it’s true.

My suggestion to GM would be not to compete in the same way. When driving you need a simple, clean, reliable interface. Nobody wants a steering wheel to change location or the numbers on the gear stick to randomly change.

Ignoring the private video on the web page [1]:

> Designed in-house by GM engineers, Ultifi has been designed with third-party developers in mind. It runs on Linux and the Red Hat in-vehicle operating system, allowing GM to grant access to external developers to create apps and programs for customers.

I really hope it's all sandboxed to the heavens with external monitoring (they'll probably want to re-write the OOM and scheduler to ensure their processes are always given priority). Don't make the same mistake as Tesla with logging to flash [2].

[1] https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/general-motors-services/gm-u...

[2] https://www.tomshardware.com/news/flash-memory-wear-killing-...

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#294

Automobile companies tried for years to make a decent infotainment system in cars, and almost universally they were all terrible no matter how expensive the vehicle. Finally Android Auto and CarPlay gave everyone what they wanted - decent access to music on their phone, call capabilities that actually work, and program integration with things they actually use with internet service they already have. Then manufacture…

> decent access to music on their phone, call capabilities that actually work, and program integration with things they actually use with internet service they already have.

I am convinced all of these things are unsafe. I refuse to take calls when driving over bluetooth; distracting yourself with a conversation when you're supposed to be driving is reckless and I think this is doubly true when it's a phone conversation (in which the other participant can't watch the road and know when to stop talking.)

Even music while driving is a nuisance. Nobody talks about the role of music in car accidents because almost everybody likes it, but it contributes to distracted driving and in some cases reckless driving. It encourages people to continue driving when they are mentally fatigued (take note of how many people say music "helps" them during long drives.)

GPS navigation on a screen is a bad idea too; your eyes cannot read a screen and watch the road at the same time. Pure voice navigation giving brief commands and updates is sufficient and relatively safe. Car integration isn't necessary at all; a phone placed in the center console with the volume turned up and the screen turned off gets the job done. If you need to make adjustments or read a text or take a call, pull over.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbf, I don't know why people get hung up on this, I see this on Volvo forums all the time as well - you can literally get a £50 adapter, leave it plugged in inside your armrest and voila, you have wireless carplay. It literally "just works". Should the car already come with it installed? Yes. Is it a big deal to rectify? No.

>you can literally get a £50 adapter, leave it plugged in inside your armrest and voila, you have wireless carplay. It literally "just works". I'm thankful for whichever Chinese engineers reversed the protocol for CarPlay to make this work. But my experience with these adapters is they are more fiddly than you're describing.

I mean I have one for wireless android auto and it does just work, it's plugged in, I never have to think about it or worry about it, it just pops up on my screen as if it was built into the car. Maybe the CarPlay ones are more fiddly, I'm not sure.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla software experience far outshines CarPlay and Android Auto.

Google maps or waze are much better than the on board tesla maps. You need to pay to have traffic data on tesla, waze and Google maps gives you that for free.

You pay to have traffic visualization, but traffic data is part of the trip planning, and the navigator does reroute you on a faster road if it's available (the delta is configurable).

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#297
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have like the opposite experience...AA and Carplay have always been cause of issues, having to take the phone in my hand while driving, sluggishness.. In fact I feel the opposite you say: car play has been an excuse for some automakers for subpar infotainment. That being said removing it completely is madness, because people like you are millions and want it.

I think you need to upgrade your phone. I have never had these issues with a (more or less recent) iPhone.

The idea that I have to upgrade my perfectly working phone to get a better infotainment experience sounds ridiculous.

Also, as I stated, I'm perfectly fine with the out-of-the-box experience of the infotainment in both my cars.

There's radio, there's maps, that's all I really need.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an anecdote - I own a Volvo XC60(with Sensus not AAOS) and 99% of the time I'd rather just use the built-in OS than Android Auto - AA is slow to respond and imprecise(clicks are almost always recognized as swipes rather than clicks, problem which doesn't happen in the built-in OS), and every time you need to do something it locks you out for 5 seconds to look at the road, even though it's my passenger using it.…

As an observation point - I drive a company car (a BMW) and will be looking for a new car next year. I would not even considers Volvo until they support wireless CarPlay. GM must very much believe in appeal of their car to piss off android and iOS users simultaneously.

Don't you need to plug in your phone anyway to charge it?

And what about switching drivers and quickly switching phones? Or just having the passenger quickly switch to their music.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect they don't want to pay what great software engineers cost, and even if they did, most such engineers probably wouldn't want to put up with GM's bureaucracy. It's probably kinda the same story with great mechanical and industrial engineers, which is why approximately nobody finds GM cars exciting.

>I expect they don't want to pay what great software engineers cost, and even if they did, most such engineers probably wouldn't want to put up with GM's bureaucracy. IMO, the bureaucracy isn't that big a problem; all big companies have this problem. The big problem for GM is their locations: who the heck wants to move to Detroit? Or any of the other places their suppliers tend to locate?

GM has many development centers, including Roswell, Georgia, but it should be pointed out that like most American metros, Metro Detroit has a wide variety of cities and towns for different lifestyles. You don't have to live in Robocop to work for GM, which has facilities spread about both the Detroit metro area and the country.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#300

Call it what it is.. they like the control of their in car entertainment systems and they don't want external companies taking that part of the pie. It's okay gm, we understand. Let's hope you are able to make a compelling competition to this, otherwise your sales will suffer. Traditional car software is very very poor for whatever reason. I don't think that car manufacturers have the mindset and capability to make e…

Unfortunately consumers don't really punish companies for doing these kinds of things, at least I presume that's the story since high-end cars often have very shitty in-car computer experiences, like BMW or Porsche.

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