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GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

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Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#161

Post by hedora »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #154
verhaust wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give examples of this? I was recently looking for a car and saw the discounts and credits for a Tesla and thought it was finally time to go electric. Then I started researching the interface and saw so many people talking about how clunky it was and they decided to just use bluetooth with their phone to listen to music rather than the interface or even worse hacks where they setup a web server on their phone…

I bought a BMW i4, not a Tesla 3, so this is just my comparison. But Tesla software works really well, they have navigation to chargers, something that doesn’t really work in the BMW, you are pretty much on your own. They have sentinal mode, and it actually doesn’t suck like BMW’s drive recorder does. You can open your car with your phone, like for real via UWB, not just some NFC thing that works only in one place, o…

I have an i3, pre-carplay, and I like that the computer works well with just a jog wheel.

It has a navigate to charger feature that works reasonably well (though there are too many steps to “only show fast chargers”, and many stations are broken, though hopefully the tesla supercharger deal will fix that…)

Range estimates seem to be accurate, unlike Tesla’s high-balling.

Anyway, I’m hoping they can do at least that well moving forward.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#162

Post by bmitc »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #94
ungamedplayer wrote: post #4

Call it what it is.. they like the control of their in car entertainment systems and they don't want external companies taking that part of the pie. It's okay gm, we understand. Let's hope you are able to make a compelling competition to this, otherwise your sales will suffer. Traditional car software is very very poor for whatever reason. I don't think that car manufacturers have the mindset and capability to make e…

Tesla is the exception here: they seem to have mastered making a car software experience that doesn’t suck, and they don’t even support CarPlay. But Tesla is a tech/software company that happens to make cars (of dubious build quality), I don’t think conventional automakers can replicate that.

I'm not sure I consider rediscovering why buttons matter is mastering anything.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#163

Post by wwweston »

viraptor wrote: post #129
mulmen wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want abandonware in my car. Don't include alpha-grade software in a mid-five-figure product. If you can't get it right don't ship it. The navigation/infotainment space is a thoroughly solved domain. We don't need biweekly OTA updates to add the latest trendy thing. I don't want controls moving around or menus changing based on a perverted engagement metric. BMW "pathced" several mechanical features of my car. This…

I've got abandonware in my Ford. It's got a bug in the Bluetooth stack which makes it unusable with my new phone. It's never going to be updated, so out of 2 users of that car, one can't play media and the other needs to deal with occasional infosystem crashes that require a full reset and re-pairing. You may be lucky today, but as years go by, you'll find some bugs too. As Bluetooth standards evolve, you'll want non…

or an aux jack

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#164

Post by Zetobal »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #94
ungamedplayer wrote: post #4

Call it what it is.. they like the control of their in car entertainment systems and they don't want external companies taking that part of the pie. It's okay gm, we understand. Let's hope you are able to make a compelling competition to this, otherwise your sales will suffer. Traditional car software is very very poor for whatever reason. I don't think that car manufacturers have the mindset and capability to make e…

Tesla is the exception here: they seem to have mastered making a car software experience that doesn’t suck, and they don’t even support CarPlay. But Tesla is a tech/software company that happens to make cars (of dubious build quality), I don’t think conventional automakers can replicate that.

It's okay I wouldn't call it great.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#165

Post by pi-rat »

tivert wrote: post #131
szundi wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In those specific usecases that it implements. Also navigation makes idiotic moves lately.

I do not own a Tesla, but I've seen videos that told me that you pretty much have to use it's in car navigation system, for good reason: it factors in your route to give you an accurate range estimate, otherwise the estimates can be (significantly) off. That's important given that even the best electric cars have shorter range than gas cars, and there are far fewer recharging options than there are refueling options.

It will also use knowledge about the destination to prep the car. Heading to a charger? It will prep the battery so that it’s at the optimal temperature for charging on arrival etc..

That said though, there are route planners that can give excellent range estimation (both for online and offline cars), by taking into account the terrain/temperature/etc, like ABetterRoutePlanner - ABRP

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#166

Post by foobazgt »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #20
ungamedplayer wrote: post #4

Call it what it is.. they like the control of their in car entertainment systems and they don't want external companies taking that part of the pie. It's okay gm, we understand. Let's hope you are able to make a compelling competition to this, otherwise your sales will suffer. Traditional car software is very very poor for whatever reason. I don't think that car manufacturers have the mindset and capability to make e…

I expect they don't want to pay what great software engineers cost, and even if they did, most such engineers probably wouldn't want to put up with GM's bureaucracy. It's probably kinda the same story with great mechanical and industrial engineers, which is why approximately nobody finds GM cars exciting.

Many years ago, I discussed possible employment with a major head unit manufacturer. They were very excited about modernizing but basically stunned into silence when I mentioned typical senior FAANG pay. I'd be surprised if things have changed much.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#167

Post by willvarfar »

Rayhem wrote: post #93
jimmaswell wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't take much more than not going for the cheapest offshore team possible to make better car media center code than we get. I'm sure most of us could easily do it ourselves in a month or less. It seems like such a simple problem. Play songs and interface with some controls/radio receiver/etc while being at least a tiny bit conscious of efficiency.

This is an incredibly myopic take bordering on arrogance. The infotainment system of a vehicle needs (as in, is mandated) to be as safety compliant as the rest of the vehicle's software so your steering doesn't lock out when the display crashes. Writing software for safety critical systems is not a task most developers are familiar with.

I have heard from industry insiders that this is true for some major manufacturers, and not for others. If the infotainment is integrated with the driving functions then every release of the infotainment system needs recertifying. Some manufacturers avoid this by having completely separate systems.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#168

Post by pmontra »

pmg102 wrote: post #146
bluefirebrand wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am dreading the future of cars, where they somehow are worse than a car I could buy right now but also I have to pay a monthly subscription for the worse experience. The enshittification of everything is making me want to go berserk.

There's no obligation to buy a new one. Keep your existing cars on the road or replace them with other low mileage used ones. I bet repair costs on used are less than depreciatiom + finance costs on new, and there's pleasure to be gained from a retro aesthetic.

Time passes and sooner or later the oldest available used car will be from 2024. Add the effect of legislation which could deny access to some areas important for you unless you have a car compliant to regulations made in 2030.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#169

Post by Animats »

dntrkv wrote: post #133
jandrewrogers wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think they design it in-house? Automotive companies outsource most of this software to third parties at bottom-feeder rates on a hard delivery deadline. They don’t know how to produce good software like this. Every aspect of the process is the antithesis of what is required to have quality software come out the other side. I have my issues with CarPlay but the OEM software is hot garbage by comparison.

It's hilarious just how bad OEM car software is. One of those many moments in my day to day that I realize how bad 90% of software we interact with is absolute trash. ATM machines, credit card readers, parking meters, TVs, microwaves, ovens (really any appliances), phone trees, any kiosks, etc. If the device registers my touch within 500ms that's usually enough to impress me at this point.

> One of those many moments in my day to day that I realize how bad 90% of software we interact with is absolute trash.

Yes. My favorite crap area is point-of-sale systems. There's a cafe where, if I present the card too soon, the reader beeps and flashes, but card doesn't complete transaction, and I have to try again. Same at a bookstore. This seems to be a standard Veriphone feature. There are supermarket card terminals which explicitly tell you to present the card before the system is ready for card info. The point of sale system and the credit card terminal are not properly synchronized, and they lie to the user about it. It's a dark pattern.

The one restaurant that had a really good system, one that had no excess screens and read the credit card correctly every time, replaced it with an inferior system that misreads the card about half the time.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#170

Post by foobazgt »

Rayhem wrote: post #93
jimmaswell wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't take much more than not going for the cheapest offshore team possible to make better car media center code than we get. I'm sure most of us could easily do it ourselves in a month or less. It seems like such a simple problem. Play songs and interface with some controls/radio receiver/etc while being at least a tiny bit conscious of efficiency.

This is an incredibly myopic take bordering on arrogance. The infotainment system of a vehicle needs (as in, is mandated) to be as safety compliant as the rest of the vehicle's software so your steering doesn't lock out when the display crashes. Writing software for safety critical systems is not a task most developers are familiar with.

Dear no, rather exactly the opposite. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at this point if all new cars have the capability to reboot the display system in the middle of driving.

You definitely don't want these systems intertwined. It has the side benefit of allowing you to do pretty aggressive things like using more modern hardware, software, etc. E.G. last time I checked, Tesla uses Godot for a decent amount of their UI.

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