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Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

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Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#111
The FBI director straight up admits that they violate the 4th amendment routinely, and then begs Congress to not ruin their precious workaround. And yet they will face no punishment whatsoever.

Like another commenter said, many people were probably unconstitutionally charged via parallel construction thanks to this crap.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#112

[flagged]

It's kind of odd actually. Any time the topic is on corporate crap, HN is suddenly overwhelmingly pro-business. Whenever the topic is government-related, the demographic shifts hard left. That's been my experience at least. Maybe business threads get more economic-right people commenting, and government threads get more left people commenting.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#113

[flagged]

Having enough trouble with the shallow state already. Can we upgrade that first?

But didn't we discover way back with Snowden that it was not as shallow as we thought? Has it decreased in depth since then?

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#114
post #108

"Today, corrupt politicians put on another dog and pony show while continuing business as usual. Is our democracy secretly a farce? Details at 11."

Or, everyone could get off their asses and carry their weight as a citizen in a democracy. Nihilistic dismissal of the right to vote is lazy. Nobody said upholding your rights was going to be easy . Organization, affiliation, communication all take work. Get involved in primaries, for either party! Fewer voters and even more power there. Yard signs are cheap. Make your own. Make this an issue. Or, if you need to hear…

And belief that the masses organizing and voting can have power over Leviathan and its bureaucrats is delusional. They just keep pushing these policies and power grabs until they go through, and/or lie about the components of them. There's no practical check on deep state power such as this in today's so-called-democracy.

You would need some counter-elite faction that already has foothold on power to oppose current power structure. Revolutions (and that's what is necessary to change current policies) never come from the bottom up.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#115

[flagged]

Exactly. The news anchors reading a script approved by CEOs of companies owned by a handful of parent companies, owned by a handful of people, who happen to be close acquaintances with other powerful people (governmentally and economically) told me that the deep state is a right wing nut job conspiracy theory, and that it is a Baseless Claim™.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#116

Of course it will pass. The government will never willingly give up power and will only seek ways to expand it.

Discard this attitude. It is defeatist resignation, and it is indistinguishable from the opposition.

3 month old account pushing unproductive defeatist nihilism. If you pay attention you'll see this in every thread about the US and users somehow think it's worth upvoting.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#117
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>such as US states joining the Union This doesn't really count as freely joining, since half of them were forced to join by a bloody war.

> This doesn't really count as freely joining, since half of them were forced to join by a bloody war. In the South, do they generally consider themselves as forced to re-join the Union, rather than having been forcefully prevented from leaving?

> In the South, do they generally consider themselves as forced to re-join the Union, rather than having been forcefully prevented from leaving?

I don't think it is revisionism and maybe I am wrong on this, but wasn't it the Confederacy who attacked the Union at Fort Sumter which kicked off the US Civil War?

It's my understanding the Union was more or less ambivalent to the Confederacy and figured they'd let things lie then the Confederacy attacked.

I don't know enough history to say whether the Confederacy was forced to re-join or whether the states asked to rejoin in light of their government collapsing (Davis fleeing Richmond, etc). My guess would be that it was more of a failed state situation where the US had dibs on propping it back up.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. We cannot have our cake and eat it too. We cannot have unprotected, open borders for decades, and then expect to identify and track foreign internal threats AND not provide the USGOV the means to detect and surveil. We cannot assume that because we're an HN regular who thinks power corrupts (it certainly does) the cost of that corruption is greater than what we pay if/when a foreign adversary acts against the US.…

Fun fact, "open borders" is a complete myth.

Well, our borders might be legally closed, but with 2.2 million people illegally crossing them from the southern border per year, that is the entire population of Houston, maybe it's fair to say they're closed but effectively open. Coupled with the fact that if you're caught, you can just say you're claiming asylum and you get to stay.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely agree that the U.S. government has gotten more powerful since WWII almost monotonously. The times of honest reduction were in the 1990s and, potentially, now. That said, I would be careful about conflating the volume of rules and staffing with power. The bureaucratic imperative will drive a bureaucracy to expand. But it also does that to others, the net effect being a lot of intragovernmental arguing tha…

what are rules, but merely (legal) attempts to make the rule-maker more powerful ?

> what are rules, but merely (legal) attempts to make the rule-maker more powerful

You've got to be kidding me. Here's one: coordination. Everyone drive on the right. That wasn't done to make anyone more powerful; it was done to prevent stupid crashes.

Here's another rule: don't fly you plane past its spec. That isn't to oppress the pilot. It's because the plane wasn't designed to be flown harder.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you LARPing based on first principles? Just give examples: * Trump's First Step Act. E.g., title III-- can no longer use restraints on prisoners during pregnancy-- and IV-- reducing mandatory minimums for drug felony convictions * Trump's Affordable Clean Energy rule which removed caps on emissions * Clinton's repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act back in 1999 * Carter's Airline Deregulation Act back in the late 7…

The Patriot Act (2001), The Homeland Security Act (2002), The Federal Information Security Management Act (FISMA) (2002), The National Defense Authorization Act, The Affordable Care Act (2010),The Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act (CISA) (2015), The Real ID Act (2005),The USA Freedom Act (2015), The Executive Order on Improving the Nation’s Cybersecurity (2021), The Economic Stabilization Act (2008), The Executiv…

Nobody claimed governments never expand their powers. The contested statement was "government will never willingly give up power." Examples of governments curtailing their powers were provided. That they also increase their powers is unremarkable, uncontested and frankly obvious given you can't decrease something that was never increased.
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