Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

tuta.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 192 posts

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#71

Post by AlwaysRock »

WendyTheWillow wrote: post #35
laweijfmvo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are some recent examples of governments giving up power?

https://legiscan.com/US/legislation?status=passed A few times this year in the US at the federal level, for starters. One could argue that every peaceful transition of power is the current government giving up power to the next government. Even Roe v. Wade was a “giving up” of power by the federal government to guarantee a right to abortion nationally.

Does revoking a previous ruling really count as giving up power? The government had the power to say this is banned. They still have the power to say this isnt banned. It doesnt seem like any power has been lost. They just decided to use it in another way. They could change the decision tomorrow. That wouldnt be any more or less power. They are still using it to enforce their rulings.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#72

Post by daveguy »

vGPU wrote: post #66
howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. We cannot have our cake and eat it too. We cannot have unprotected, open borders for decades, and then expect to identify and track foreign internal threats AND not provide the USGOV the means to detect and surveil. We cannot assume that because we're an HN regular who thinks power corrupts (it certainly does) the cost of that corruption is greater than what we pay if/when a foreign adversary acts against the US.…

Ok, so let’s deport everyone who came in through said unprotected open borders. That’s literally why borders exist. To keep foreign threats… foreign.

Weird how the most prominent example of terrorism on American soil from foreign agents was perpetrated with completely legal non-land-border penetration. Seems like we have locals lot more dangerous than anyone coming through the land border with Mexico to work or seek asylum in the US. Actual foreign terrorists just aren't as ignorant as you want them to be.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#73

Post by soco »

Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote: post #53
todd-davies wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great example. Another one is state governments joining a union or federal system, such as US states joining the Union or European states joining the EU, and becoming bound by federal/EU law.

What? Joining the EU absolutely increases government power. It lets the government do things by saying "europe makes us".

Or lets the local government or whatever party say "ohhh how wouldn't we have increased your well-being if not for them darn Europeans so just elect us one more time then we'll show them for good". And this line works so well, regardless if the respective party did or tried anything on the European level or not. It's the cultivated helplessness in some circles, that EU was some remote and abstract place where "things" happen and no one, not even your own representatives there, can move an inch. Same whether you're German or Luxembourgeois, it's the ideal material for promoting your own party and keeping the voters dumbed down.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#74

Post by dahart »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #28
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> government will never willingly give up power Governments regularly do this. One of the greatest losses for privacy advocates over the last generation is this brand of nihilism making the issue electorally useless.

what are some recent examples of governments giving up power?

> what are some recent examples of governments giving up power?

We have a whole category for it in the US and one of the two major parties devoted to it: Deregulation.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#75

Post by the_optimist »

alwaysrunning wrote: post #7

Of course it will pass. The government will never willingly give up power and will only seek ways to expand it.

Discard this attitude. It is defeatist resignation, and it is indistinguishable from the opposition.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#76

Post by tastyfreeze »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #30
laweijfmvo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are some recent examples of governments giving up power?

Didn’t you see the Portland Oregon thread earlier? Oregon has done a ton to legalize drugs, muzzle the police (can’t pull people over for ghetto cars anymore as one small example), and generally reduce the amount of power that the government has over your day to day life. Ron wyden tries every day to reduce mass surveillance and similar risks for Oregonians You do get governments willing to give up power if you elect…

Interesting that you have a carve out for progressive democrats but all Republicans are bad. There are "unitary executive theory" camps in both parties. Seems to be a more dominant idea in the Democrat party than Republican from my view. Democrats vote as a block on almost every bill in congress. Democrats have also been behind most expansions to executive power in the last 100 years.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#77

Post by seanw444 »

daveguy wrote: post #72
vGPU wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so let’s deport everyone who came in through said unprotected open borders. That’s literally why borders exist. To keep foreign threats… foreign.

Weird how the most prominent example of terrorism on American soil from foreign agents was perpetrated with completely legal non-land-border penetration. Seems like we have locals lot more dangerous than anyone coming through the land border with Mexico to work or seek asylum in the US. Actual foreign terrorists just aren't as ignorant as you want them to be.

Okay so your solution is: open borders and heavier government surveillance to balance it? Fantastic.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#78

Post by Levitz »

daveguy wrote: post #72
vGPU wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so let’s deport everyone who came in through said unprotected open borders. That’s literally why borders exist. To keep foreign threats… foreign.

Weird how the most prominent example of terrorism on American soil from foreign agents was perpetrated with completely legal non-land-border penetration. Seems like we have locals lot more dangerous than anyone coming through the land border with Mexico to work or seek asylum in the US. Actual foreign terrorists just aren't as ignorant as you want them to be.

So what? Sorry but this is not even a bad argument, it's just not an argument at all. Most shootings are not in schools, so school shootings aren't a problem? Most drug addictions come from prescribed drugs, so heroin and fentanyl being sold on the street is fine?

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#79

Post by KMag »

logicchains wrote: post #43
todd-davies wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great example. Another one is state governments joining a union or federal system, such as US states joining the Union or European states joining the EU, and becoming bound by federal/EU law.

>such as US states joining the Union This doesn't really count as freely joining, since half of them were forced to join by a bloody war.

> This doesn't really count as freely joining, since half of them were forced to join by a bloody war.

In the South, do they generally consider themselves as forced to re-join the Union, rather than having been forcefully prevented from leaving?

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#80

Post by zdragnar »

daveguy wrote: post #72
vGPU wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so let’s deport everyone who came in through said unprotected open borders. That’s literally why borders exist. To keep foreign threats… foreign.

Weird how the most prominent example of terrorism on American soil from foreign agents was perpetrated with completely legal non-land-border penetration. Seems like we have locals lot more dangerous than anyone coming through the land border with Mexico to work or seek asylum in the US. Actual foreign terrorists just aren't as ignorant as you want them to be.

In 2023, more than 160 people on the terror watch list have been caught illegally crossing US borders:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/number-pe...

Given that there are 600,000 who were observed entering but got away in 2023 alone, and more were likely crossing unobserved, there's very good odds that they are already here.

Post reply on HN