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The Case for Memory Safe Roadmaps

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Re: The Case for Memory Safe Roadmaps

#81

But how are we going to trade stocks in nano seconds without C++?!

Grew up on C++ and the paradigm (& loved it), but then moved to interpreted for use cases.

I think the uncoolness of them is due to OOP methodology... programmers today seem to want to be easier to get moving, but then spend more time debugging OR the debugging has been "placed onto" DevOps / use of Cheap fast hardware. IMHO

Re: The Case for Memory Safe Roadmaps

#82
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize this is beating a dead horse, but it really is a shame that microkernels didn't win for human-facing Unix systems. This issue was recognized and basically solved decades ago, and we're still almost there.

Hurd any day now, right? I do wonder what this landscape could have looked like if all of the effort had gone behind a Mach-based microkernel. I read all of the back and forth between Tanenbaum and Torvalds. At the time, I was just so excited to see "free and open" winning. I should specify that the XNU Kernel from Darwin/OSX took a lot of my attention when it first premiered.

Hurd works in the same sense that OpenBSD works. It has very limited hardware support so you'll likely have to run it in a VM, but it does work.

Re: The Case for Memory Safe Roadmaps

#83

"Undefined behavior" in general is a nightmare. After memory safety, the next target should be the enforcement of underflow/overflow trapping. With the exception of the intentional use to implement modular arithmetic, underflow/overflow should always be an error condition.

Not everything is a server facing malicious actors. Forcing underflow/overflow trapping would absolutely harm optimisation and performance for use-cases where security is a non-issue.

Re: The Case for Memory Safe Roadmaps

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh boy... Nothing is mandated here. These are just suggestions from experts. Don't take them if you don't want to.

wait for gov contract projects mandate them in the fine prints, it's a signal that is serious enough for anyone interested in doing any software-related business with gov, for them, this is nearly the same as 'mandated'

There actually was a mandate for government work in the past with Ada. This is not a mandate.

Even that mandate did not appear to fundamentally change the landscape beyond government work.

Re: The Case for Memory Safe Roadmaps

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next thing they'll be giving requirements for people building bridges, houses, and gas and electricity fittings. Seriously, I think the time has long since passed software needs regulating. It's a major part of modern society, and as far as I'm aware, most people aren't opposed to building standards in principle.

People figured out how to build buildings prior to creating building codes

And many buildings were built deliberately poorly to make a quick buck - or caught fire too easily or fell down in minor earthquakes (or worse damage other property/people). Peoples homes are a major financial commitment and can ruin people if they're not up to scratch.

The regulations are to ensure the 10% of bad builders/developers don't ruin peoples lives.

Re: The Case for Memory Safe Roadmaps

#88
post #32

I advise training programmers instead of throwing them in front of a screen without any training. Companies these days provides no training at all. When I was hired over 40 years ago, I spent plenty of time being trained for my first 3 months. Now, nothing, and you if you want to train a new person, you do it on your own time.

Why train when they just leave the company in a year for 10%+ more money.

With that attitude, it's not shocking you have a retention problem.

Re: The Case for Memory Safe Roadmaps

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Next thing they'll be giving requirements for people building bridges, houses, and gas and electricity fittings. Seriously, I think the time has long since passed software needs regulating. It's a major part of modern society, and as far as I'm aware, most people aren't opposed to building standards in principle.

If software had been regulated like engineering we'd still be writing horrible OO-heavy enterprise Java style code like in the 90s and UML would be mandatory.
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