Ok, but have they tried - checks notes - more programs maybe? :-/
To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
721–730 of 1001 posts
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#722I live in the Seattle area, which is struggling with public drug use just like Portland. Like Portland, we've lived for decades with very progressive politicians who have lead successful decriminalization efforts and spent huge sums of public funds on treatment and harm reduction programs. After several decades and many, many millions of dollars spent, the problem is, by every measure, absolutely the worst it's ever…
Can always look at places that don't have drug problems like Singapore, Qatar or UAE. decriminalization. look at china who also had a crippling opiate problem with opium and it wasn't solve with decriminalization. Opoids have no place in society and there's no such thing as harm reduction when it comes to opioid use besides complete prohibition. I know 4 people who have died from opioid over doses, and just recently…
So you're basically advocating for widespread rollback of civil rights, based on the examples you chose?
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#723Earlier quoted context omitted.
So which do you prefer to tack on the end of that: "...except for the disabled" or "...and to hell with the disabled"? Both are widely used.
I have people with disabilities in my family so I know their realities up close - unlike most leftist politicians who only seek them for photo ops. My wife volunteers pro-bono in a foundation that employs solely people with disabilities. They do work (according to their capacities), they get paid a wage, and they pay (little) taxes off it. And they are super proud that they can “pull their weight” and be equals in a…
One of the big issues with severe disability is the stupidly low cap on assets to qualify for social programs (SS, Medicaid). It was set in the 70s at $2000 and hasn't been changed since.
This keeps people with severe disabilities out of the workforce more than anything else.
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#724Nowhere in these comments have I see anybody take the position that decriminalization is not enough; drugs need to be legalized and regulated. I have a close friend whose relative is a heroin addict. According to her, a lot of overdoses are due to almost no "heroin" actually being heroin, rather its fentanyl cut to varying degrees of strength. Not knowing what you're taking, and not knowing how strong it is, can lead…
Hard disagree. Decriminalizing drugs has skyrocketed schizophrenia and homelessness. Drugs should only be legalized in specific, medically necessary situations. Recreational use should be stigmatized and dealers should be handled as Duterte advocated. The crime of the War on Drugs was that we had double standards, not that we had a War on Drugs.
"Decriminalizing drugs caused the increase in homelessness" seems like a really strong assertion to make considering all the other things that have happened in this same time period.
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#725Drug legalization is something I have come 180 on (or at least, 90 degrees). Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc. ODs have more than doubled, and the shelters are half empty! They are not one more social program away from cleaning out the streets. I think the experiment has radically failed and I'm ready to say I was wrong. While I don't want to go back t…
I don’t want people locked in jail, but I do think that something akin to the Baker Act needs to be implemented. There are clearly many people who need help but are not willing to seek help themselves. It’s safe to say that they aren’t in control of their own actions and are a danger to everyone around them. It’s not compassion to simply let them rot on the street.
I have been in the same boat while living in SF.
I don’t believe addicts and even to extension a lot of dealers should be locked up. I agree generally that nonviolent crimes probably don’t net benefit the community by locking people up. Assuming we are talking about our existing prison system.
For addicts unfortunately I don’t know what else is possible beyond locking them up in mental health institutions. Perhaps we need to try out new types of addiction centers that we can enroll people into? I don’t know what the answer is and I am not sure if we have the help of history. We certainly had drugs in the past but most of the time it sounds like people were drunks. Now we have a crisis of addicts using drugs that are unstoppable.
I wish I had a better idea but everything so far has not worked. There is probably a cutoff. You have the individuals that are not possible to bring back and the ones that could maybe become recovering addicts. The ones that are not coming back just need to go to state institutions.
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#726Try to invite Xi Zhinpin, he cleaned San Francisco streets in just a few days.
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#727Earlier quoted context omitted.
Former Portland native here: it hasn’t worked. I was back just a year or two ago and 5th ave near the waterfront was overrun with homeless openly shooting up and accosting folks. All the food carts across from the building where I used to work left, the Indian buffet restaurant closed, walking up around 10th near the Target to check out other restaurants I loved many I saw many barricaded former businesses. The city…
WFH means biz isn’t coming back there any time soon even with the homeless gone. It’s why homeless are downtown now rather on the fringe; fringe used to be emptier more frequently as downtown filled. Now folks are home on the fringe all the time. I was just downtown for lunch on weekday and it was a ghost town. I worked for PSU for years, am aware of what it should look like and it’s just dead. That’s been the case s…
These problems are so American. Downtown in European cities (that I know) are as vibrant as ever. Europe has done just as many social programs as Portland or probably more. Why do people no live in these areas?
It seems to me this problem is much larger then drug law enforcement.
PS: US Government haven't given Musk a single $ to go to Mars, what are you even talking about.
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#728Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hate the messaging of “for the actual taxpayers” phrase even if I agree mostly with the sentiment. There is more to life than paying taxes, and people contribute to society in many ways that aren’t financial. I think “productive members” has the same phrasing problems. We need to make life better for members of society that contribute and benefit from it, for people that want to be a part of society, regardless of…
But our society rewards your societal contributions via monetary rewards which results in you paying taxes. Sure, the money you get does not necessarily reflect the value of you contributions fairly in most cases, but I think I can count on one hand the number of people I have met in my life that pay no taxes and are still a net benefit to society. And not paying taxed can be because they have no job and make no mone…
> I think I can count on one hand the number of people I have met in my life that pay no taxes and are still a net benefit to society
Stay at home parents would fall into this category. I think the unit is "family" if it's a family, and not "person".
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#729Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is such a hard problem to solve. I work with drug and alcohol addicts regularly and addiction is such a damned nightmare. And every homeless person hates shelters. They have way more rules than prisons and all of the drama. I don't know what the solutions are :(
Oh, believe me I don't think it's an easy problem either. My brother is a social worker and I know the stories. But I think the suffering of the individual is largely unchanged whether it happens out in public or on the periphery. In contrast, I think we as a larger society are suffering from lack of safe and clean public spaces. So we may as well maintain some sort of enforcement.
It’s a difficult problem. I don’t think it works for the individual on the street suffering. I don’t think institutions are great either but no worse than becoming a zombie on the street I would hope.
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#730Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The US is a very young country, with a burn it down and see what happens culture. The United States as a nation-state is older than almost all of European nation-states, barring a few. It is one of the few nation-states that has continually existed since its foundation, without interruption. Germany for example was unified in 1871. Were there 'Germans' (who spoke the language) before then? Sure. Germany? No. Neither…
The bureaucracy in Europe predates all the US. Systems of government changed, but hey, you still learn Roman Law in law school for a reason. The US is a baby in terms of structures and culture. Vienna has been continuously operating as a city since being a Roman fort, Vindobona = you can see the ruins directly in the city center.
Again, culture/language/people != nation states. I didn't realize bureaucracy meant nations. With that logic ottomans would still exist!
India is a very young country. Indians as multiple civilizations/peoples are some of the oldest ones. Two completely separate things. Shame you can't see that.