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Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

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Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if they had made it impossible to install another app store, they wouldn't have gotten punished.

If they had restricted those APIs way back when, Android would have stalled and Tizen or some other platform would have eaten a huge chunk of the market they have today. You can't just change some important historical detail and pretend there would be zero consequences except the ones you care about.

It depends on when they did it.

But I'm more worried about the future here.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#492
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practically I get that but legally I don't get it. Aren't we virtually dealing with the same evidence, arguments and laws?

We're dealing with the same laws, but not the same evidence. There wasn't much evidence in the Apple case that Apple was explicitly taking action to disadvantage or harm third-parties, and there was even less evidence that Apple utilized their economic power to ensure their dominance. If anything, the evidence in the Apple case showed that Apple treated all developers with relative parity. The evidence in Google's ca…

>If anything, the evidence in the Apple case showed that Apple treated all developers with relative parity.

Basically as long as you strip away your users rights equally, you're fine. Not exactly great news for future tech...

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because if you could sell on your own website I’m sure you would make gazillions.. And since plenty of companies do have viable businesses on the App Store, doesn’t that say more about your business idea than anything else?

There's plenty of software that straight-up doesn't ship on the App Store. One could even argue that the Mac fosters it's own class of unique software since the App Store tithe is optional. I don't think Pro Tools or Steam would get Mac ports if Apple enforced the App Store limitations on their entire platform. It's trivial to imagine businesses that become viable without strict vendor pricing control.

Steam is just a marketplace for apps and just like Adobe’s suite and Microsoft Office you can buy a subscription outside of the App Store and your apps work everywhere.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#494
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case consoles from Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo? Why stop there? Smart TV manufacturers? Cars?

Yes. If I bought and paid for something I own it and should be able to run whatever software I want on it. Anything less makes it not my device anymore.

And you bought a device knowing its limitations when you had other options…

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#495

So they will take this back to Apple and probably win then? To me this means Epic has unilaterally won. Android was the more open of the two. We all know from the personal computer how it should be. Apple and Google are on borrowed time.

Google did engage in anticompetitive behavior to make their App Store dominant over other third party App Stores

Google app store is only anti competitive if you define the market as 'android apps'. Perhaps you stretch this to just 'android app stores'.

So if we define a similar market of 'ios apps', where there's literally 1 single choice of app store, how exactly is that not anticompetitive?

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#496
post #403

Do I have this straight? Apple: no sideloading Google: yes sideloading Apple: no alternate app stores Google: OS-native APIs for facilitating third-party app stores Apple: no monopoly Google: yes monopoly Just wondering if I have this straight. Edit- > And it was all decided by a jury, unlike the Apple ruling. Oh, OK. Google will take this to SCOTUS, and their record there (The Author's Guild, Oracle) is pretty good.…

You're missing: Apple: iOS only on iPhone. No way to get one without the other. Google: Android is open source and everyone can build their own hardware. Play Store is optional for manufacturers.

IIRC, manufacturers are required to install Play Services on either all of their devices or none of them. That's a pretty important anti-competitive bit.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit of a tangent, but I want to discuss how deviously literal the Supreme Court decided to be in order to avoid letting anyone establish any precedent about what was or wasn't a legal abortion. The original filing said "It is also Dr. Karsan’s good faith belief and medical recommendation that that the Emergent Medical Condition Exception to Texas’s abortion bans and laws permits an abortion in Ms. Cox’s cir…

What I never understood is how Republicans can be for one type of abortion say before 6 weeks but not for 15 weeks? What is their rationale? If Bible says that abortion is murder, and life begins at conception, then how can they allow abortion at 6 weeks and vote for that?

It's because this lets them perform lipservice to respecting women's rights and not being a theocracy.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#498
post #403

Do I have this straight? Apple: no sideloading Google: yes sideloading Apple: no alternate app stores Google: OS-native APIs for facilitating third-party app stores Apple: no monopoly Google: yes monopoly Just wondering if I have this straight. Edit- > And it was all decided by a jury, unlike the Apple ruling. Oh, OK. Google will take this to SCOTUS, and their record there (The Author's Guild, Oracle) is pretty good.…

You're missing: Apple: iOS only on iPhone. No way to get one without the other. Google: Android is open source and everyone can build their own hardware. Play Store is optional for manufacturers.

So by enabling dozens of hardware companies to literally exist and make a ton of money, they are a monopoly? So they're being punished for being open and sharing their OS with others?

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#499
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes please. Lock it up for consumers all they want but let people who want to tinker, tinker.

And you can do that today by buying an Android device

Why do you defend apples 30% tax on ios apps, and being the sole approver of what apps you can install on your device?

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#500
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally. I'm glad this caught up to them. I used to have a lot of warm fuzzies for Google, but they've become downright despicable in so many respects. The app store has leaned toward unfair for publishers (and users) for years, I hope something good comes of this.

Like I've been saying. We're not incentivizing the stewardship of open platforms. Apple will die before they open their garden. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37731541#37732596 I don't want to be pithy and low-effort here. I'm confused on why Google lost while Apple won.

As other comments have said, Google's was a jury trial, Apple's not. And, even if neither were jury trials, as another another comment said, the justice system is not a hivemind: the way your case goes can and does depend on the judge/jury passing judgement.

That being said, Apple isn't stupid: they probably know as of now, even if they managed to believe it didn't before, that this monopoly on distribution has a shelf life. So I'm interested to see how they expand iOS app distribution to counter the claims of monopolistic behavior in the future, not unlike the way Microsoft supported other browsers financially for years to stop the FTC suing them into the dirt over Internet Explorer.

I'm generally an Apple fan, and to be totally honest, if there was another app distribution system on iOS, I doubt I would touch it. I appreciate the baseline level of quality and curation in the App Store and have no desire to leave it. I see the low-effort dreck of the Play store by comparison as undesirable. That being said, I don't grudge anyone for pointing out Apple's position in that space is uncompetitive. It is. I have no interest in alternatives but that doesn't mean alternatives shouldn't exist.

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