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Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

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Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#471

Post by kccqzy »

madeofpalk wrote: post #139
Spivak wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the fact Epic lost so handily against Apple for the same thing is pretty chilling for the future of open devices. Lock down your platform tight as a drum and you may employ all manners of anticompetitive practices because you legally forbid the existence of competitors and you're "curating your experience" but open yourself up to any competition and your behavior becomes anticompetitive.

Problem is that Google tried to have it both ways. Android is technically much more open, but then they would make deals to squash any other competition. It’s exactly the un-openness that Google’s gotten in trouble for. This article lists a bunch of the special deals Google made with various companies in order to prevent competition https://www.theverge.com/23959932/epic-v-google-trial-antitr... > One Google Play exe…

That does not refute the point. Google gives you a choice of A or B and then incentives you to choose A. And then Apple gives you one choice which is A. Now tell me which is worse.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#472

Post by asadotzler »

This could lead to real Play Store competition. I think that's grand. I'm familiar with managing multiple app stores because I'm a Samsung user and there's been an integrated Galaxy Store on every phone I've had going back at least 10 years now. There's nothing wrong with the experience. I've still got the Play Store, which is front and center, presumably because Google is making it worth Samsung's while. I've gone back and forth between having apps installed from one, both, or the other only and right now I'm on Play Store only (but Samsung's Android skin, OneUI and various Samsung apps and services update through that Samsung path.)

This is not a big deal. Multiple or alternative stores should be the norm, and celebrated.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#473

Post by Semaphor »

asadotzler wrote: post #453

I see too many otherwise smart people suggesting that no one but Google could make a safe or otherwise good app store for Android. That makes me sad. The outcome of this trial should be that ALL Google Play Android APIs are public and documented and that Google be disallowed for a period of say 10 years from developing any new Play Store features on APIs that are not part of that public set. Want to add something to…

> I see too many otherwise smart people suggesting that no one but Google could make a safe or otherwise good app store for Android.

Huh. That is literally the first time I heard a statement like this.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#474

Post by gryn »

asadotzler wrote: post #453

I see too many otherwise smart people suggesting that no one but Google could make a safe or otherwise good app store for Android. That makes me sad. The outcome of this trial should be that ALL Google Play Android APIs are public and documented and that Google be disallowed for a period of say 10 years from developing any new Play Store features on APIs that are not part of that public set. Want to add something to…

I don't know if you remember the days where each phone had it own OS. It sucked, and beside playing snake there wasn't much you could do with it.

you got to take things in context, the current market for mobile OSes is a duopoly shared between apple and Google, there were two cases against each of them, but the outcome for each one them was different.

One verdict was that apple get to stay the dictator in its fiefdom and the other, more open platform got punished for trying to do the exact same thing.

What every company will take away from this is that, they either got to go full throttle on the control or no throttle at all.

Guess which side the companies like when given an ultimatum between theses 2 choices?

Is it possible for someone to make a better store than Google ? sure, I don't think any one is arguing that.

This will only lead to more fragmentation and a loss for incentive to improve the platform, guess it may join the graveyard in 10 years?

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#475

Post by remram »

asadotzler wrote: post #453

I see too many otherwise smart people suggesting that no one but Google could make a safe or otherwise good app store for Android. That makes me sad. The outcome of this trial should be that ALL Google Play Android APIs are public and documented and that Google be disallowed for a period of say 10 years from developing any new Play Store features on APIs that are not part of that public set. Want to add something to…

I don't understand what "Google Play API" means. The point is the store, not store features or store APIs. The store is a monopoly.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#476

Post by zappb »

aaomidi wrote: post #160
foolfoolz wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because this is what computing used to be. you would download some random executable off some random website and hope you didn’t get infected with malware except the stakes are much higher on your phone than your 1998 computer because your phone is more powerful: your phone has more personal data, financial info, and can consume costly telecom resources

So random websites I go to are now gonna be able to take over my phone? Why aren’t we seeing this scale of attacks using JavaScript?

Where do you think half the zero day security vulnerabilities come from? JIT compiler for JavaScript!

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#477

Post by bee_rider »

deepsun wrote: post #386
LordKeren wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google lost this lawsuit because they were engaging in anticompetitive behavior on android by paying off companies to not produce third party app stores (like Riot) and paying phone manufacturers to not ship third party stores Google, as evidenced by their own internal docs and company deals, had no interest in having any real competition for the Google Play store. It’s really hard to see these deals when Google is t…

> ... anticompetitive behavior on android by paying off companies to not produce third party app stores What if they didn't just pay off, but forcefully forbid it, wouldn't it be anticompetitive? Basically, as Apple does on iOS.

User safety seems like a much more compelling justification for anti-competitive behavior than money.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#478

Post by remram »

skydhash wrote: post #447
Andrex wrote: post #403

Do I have this straight? Apple: no sideloading Google: yes sideloading Apple: no alternate app stores Google: OS-native APIs for facilitating third-party app stores Apple: no monopoly Google: yes monopoly Just wondering if I have this straight. Edit- > And it was all decided by a jury, unlike the Apple ruling. Oh, OK. Google will take this to SCOTUS, and their record there (The Author's Guild, Oracle) is pretty good.…

You're missing: Apple: iOS only on iPhone. No way to get one without the other. Google: Android is open source and everyone can build their own hardware. Play Store is optional for manufacturers.

> Play Store is optional for manufacturers.

Wouldn't that make it less of a monopoly then?

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#479

Post by Pulcinella »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #458
hipadev23 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm aware, but for the entities who have the revenue that justifies taking Apple or Google to court, it's 30%. Which is fairly egregious for a glorified package manager.

And in Apple's case an extremely restrictive package manger. Want to send encrypted notifications? Got to request the entitlements.

Sorry but I don't want random apps spaming me with junk. If they want to send me notifications, then yes they should request my (the user's) permission.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#480

Post by tavavex »

jongjong wrote: post #361
MBCook wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that Google lost this lawsuit because the government decided they don’t matter anymore because they don’t have good enough AI on the market?

No. I'm suggesting that Apple won theirs because they are more important in the eyes of the corrupt government and that's what it takes to win. There can only be one winner. Second place is a loser. Just wait 10 or 20 years. Watch the system concentrate wealth in fewer and fewer hands and people blame everything under the sun except the design of the system. I think the winner will probably be either Microsoft or Ora…

How exactly does this work, in your opinion? Does "The Government" (one entity) somehow decide on something like this and forces a specific judge to rule in a certain way? If something like this was uncovered, it'd be way bigger than this lawsuit.

And while you have a bit of a point about Oracle being stagnant... Microsoft? They own and develop tons of things. Microsoft isn't just Windows and Office.

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