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Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

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Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#461

Post by asadotzler »

LordKeren wrote: post #2

It will be extremely interesting to see how this shapes android going forward. Google didn’t just lose some point— they lost every point > The jury unanimously answered yes to every question put before them — that Google has monopoly power in the Android app distribution markets and in-app billing services markets, that Google did anticompetitive things in those markets, and that Epic was injured by that behavior. Th…

Most likely outcome is probably a consent decree like Microsoft's. Google agrees to publicly document all APIs for Android app store capabilities, and to refrain from certain kinds of business deals, and some mechanism of enforcement, perhaps embedded monitors at Goog or an onerous reporting regime.

Then, with a level playing field we see if Google's Play Store can compete with other app stores, and whether Google can give Android a great app store management experience to end users.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#462

Post by bee_rider »

staticautomatic wrote: post #433
pankajdoharey wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they dont look at precedents in court system in USA ?

I don’t think this deserves t be downvoted. It’s just a misunderstanding. What you’re thinking of is a different concept in the US legal system called res judicata or issue preclusion.

It does deserve to be downvoted, it seems to ignore the second paragraph of the post it responds to. That’s annoying.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#463

Post by galaxyLogic »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #436
hipadev23 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN does generally feel the same about Apple. 30% cut is egregious especially when they give favors to certain app owners. “Court System” is very contextual: the Texas Supreme Court just blocked a woman getting an abortion for a non-viable pregnancy.

This is a bit of a tangent, but I want to discuss how deviously literal the Supreme Court decided to be in order to avoid letting anyone establish any precedent about what was or wasn't a legal abortion. The original filing said "It is also Dr. Karsan’s good faith belief and medical recommendation that that the Emergent Medical Condition Exception to Texas’s abortion bans and laws permits an abortion in Ms. Cox’s cir…

What I never understood is how Republicans can be for one type of abortion say before 6 weeks but not for 15 weeks? What is their rationale? If Bible says that abortion is murder, and life begins at conception, then how can they allow abortion at 6 weeks and vote for that?

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#464

Post by zappb »

cyberax wrote: post #303
mcphage wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have to either support iOS, or get out of mobile apps entirely. What? That’s not true. There are plenty of Android-only developers.

Any example of a major Android-only app for the US?

Beeper Mini, Fortnight, several Google apps.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#465

Post by rurp »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #457
obviouslynotme wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is just as sleezy as Google but doesn't have as much power and reach. If I don't want to, I don't have to interact with Apple at all. Google is much harder to avoid, impossible in some domains like email.

You have plenty of non-Google email options, including iCloud mail from Apple.

Good luck only emailing people who don't use Gmail.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#466

Post by bee_rider »

paulddraper wrote: post #323
hackernewds wrote: post #267

I fail to understand how HN and the court system do not think the same against Apple

More of HN uses iOS than Android.

Oh, does the site report this kind of info? That’s interesting, where? It would also be neat to know mobile vs desktop, and how’s the Linux population doing here.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#467

Post by skydhash »

dns_snek wrote: post #216
EA-3167 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you seriously say "any and all competition" when Android and Google exist?

You're looking at it from the user's perspective, this case is about B2B. Imagine you're working on a hardware product that can communicate with your other devices over Bluetooth. How exactly do you avoid Apple in this scenario? You can't, or you won't be in business for very long. You need to develop an app because Apple intentionally gimps their browser, and to release the app you must agree to their terms. They're…

> Imagine you're working on a hardware product that can communicate with your other devices over Bluetooth. How exactly do you avoid Apple in this scenario?

I can't think of nothing that is paired over Bluetooth that couldn't be done better with some other medium. Even Apple use a superset of Bluetooth to get its devices working properly together.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#468

Post by judge2020 »

Andrex wrote: post #403

Do I have this straight? Apple: no sideloading Google: yes sideloading Apple: no alternate app stores Google: OS-native APIs for facilitating third-party app stores Apple: no monopoly Google: yes monopoly Just wondering if I have this straight. Edit- > And it was all decided by a jury, unlike the Apple ruling. Oh, OK. Google will take this to SCOTUS, and their record there (The Author's Guild, Oracle) is pretty good.…

Epic agreed to no jury trial in the Apple case. They requested one for this Google case. I imagine they knew the battle against Apple was a much bigger hill given the lack of any evidence of direct harm to Epic, besides in the payment processors argument (which Epic won).

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#469

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

LordKeren wrote: post #290
hackernewds wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

um but does Apple not have a monopoly on the iOS distribution system? if anything, Android is open to competition against Google. I'm baffled

Google lost this lawsuit because they were engaging in anticompetitive behavior on android by paying off companies to not produce third party app stores (like Riot) and paying phone manufacturers to not ship third party stores Google, as evidenced by their own internal docs and company deals, had no interest in having any real competition for the Google Play store. It’s really hard to see these deals when Google is t…

The mental gymnastics outplay here are wild.

Google is anticompetitive because they allowed users to install third party apps, but paid big players not to develop app stores.

But if they had just done what Apple does, and just ban third party installs all together, that'd be what? Hyper competitive and fair?

It absolutely pains me to see Google essentially punished for having the only phone platform that allows users to install their own apps.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#470

Post by [deleted] »

deepsun wrote: post #354
MBCook wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Madeofpalk’s comment explains the (possible) issue very well. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38608075 Apple has always been “here’s the rules, follow or go away”. Google was “we’re open!” except they kept undermining that.

It doesn't matter for US legal system how their marketing call that. It's either legal or not.

[deleted]
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