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Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

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Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#451

Post by johndhi »

dragonwriter wrote: post #396
johndhi wrote: post #321

Couple of thoughts for HN as a lawyer: 1. The fact that Google lost here doesn't bind or affect apple. Jury verdicts aren't binding on any party other than those in the lawsuit. Apple may or may not be found to violate the law in a separate case. 2. Interesting no one has mentioned Epic's Chinese ownership. I could see Google complaining to us govt that it's unfair for Chinese tech to win these court cases against US…

> Interesting no one has mentioned Epic's Chinese ownership. Its not relevant to the issues in the cases they have been involved in over app stores. > I could see Google complaining to us govt that it's unfair for Chinese tech to win these court cases against US tech. "The government" (presumably, here, you mean the executive branch?) can't veto a court ruling on the premise that the law should have been different th…

To be clear, I agree with you. But the administration is very anti China. Not saying they can violate the constitution, but they could pressure or suggest legislation about this.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#452

Post by dlivingston »

tjean_z wrote: post #326
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't need to strike secret deals to keep out alternative app stores because they've made alternate app stores completely impossible. If the result of this case is "you can have a monopoly as long as your device and ecosystem are 100% locked down", that's terrible!

Apple has published research on using AI to clone apps. It can't get worse source: https://blog.ml.cmu.edu/2021/12/10/understanding-user-interf...

I read the paper. That's very cool research! I've never thought of representing UI as a graph before. Their code generation clearly leaves much to be desired (see the figure at page bottom).

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#453

Post by asadotzler »

I see too many otherwise smart people suggesting that no one but Google could make a safe or otherwise good app store for Android. That makes me sad.

The outcome of this trial should be that ALL Google Play Android APIs are public and documented and that Google be disallowed for a period of say 10 years from developing any new Play Store features on APIs that are not part of that public set. Want to add something to the Play Store, the API is public at or before launch.

Even playing field for app stores. Plain and simple.

Then it's up to Google to make picking and changing and removing app stores and all of that a super awesome experience that keeps users safe and in control, just like any good OS vendor would. It's also up to Google to have a competitive app store in Google Play. There's plenty of room for competition there and I'll wager that 30% cut will be one of the first things to take a hit.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#454

Post by johndhi »

MBCook wrote: post #378
Andoryuuta wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a lawyer, but the idea of #2 seems crazy to me. Have there been any past case(s) where the country/nationality of minority owners of a company has been grounds for changing a ruling?

I’m also not a lawyer, I don’t think they can change a ruling. But they could certainly get a law passed that changes the rules and supersedes the ruling.

Yes - this. It's not uncommon thah the legislature has passed a law in reaction to a court decision to clarify a law.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#455

Post by [deleted] »

dragonwriter wrote: post #366
hackernewds wrote: post #267

I fail to understand how HN and the court system do not think the same against Apple

> I fail to understand how HN and the court system do not think the same against Apple "The court system" is not a collective entity with a shared set of thoughts. Different judges, different arguments, in one case (but not the other) a jury, these things make a difference. The appellate process and the system of binding precedent goes with it serves to somewhat make things more consistent overall than individual tri…

[deleted]

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#456

Post by johndhi »

zemo wrote: post #379
johndhi wrote: post #321

Couple of thoughts for HN as a lawyer: 1. The fact that Google lost here doesn't bind or affect apple. Jury verdicts aren't binding on any party other than those in the lawsuit. Apple may or may not be found to violate the law in a separate case. 2. Interesting no one has mentioned Epic's Chinese ownership. I could see Google complaining to us govt that it's unfair for Chinese tech to win these court cases against US…

while they do have pretty deep ties to tencent and are 40% owned by them, they’re not really chinese-owned since Epic is majority-owned by Tim Sweeney, a billionaire programmer on the Forbes 500 who mostly escapes criticism from programmers and game devs by branding himself as a savior for indie devs, which people accept uncritically because he likes to go on twitter and affirm their priors. He’s a highly effective n…

Oh I didn't know that! Thank you.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#457

Post by AlchemistCamp »

obviouslynotme wrote: post #444
hackernewds wrote: post #267

I fail to understand how HN and the court system do not think the same against Apple

Apple is just as sleezy as Google but doesn't have as much power and reach. If I don't want to, I don't have to interact with Apple at all. Google is much harder to avoid, impossible in some domains like email.

You have plenty of non-Google email options, including iCloud mail from Apple.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#458

Post by WirelessGigabit »

hipadev23 wrote: post #445
hinkley wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple charges 30% on your second $million. For many of us, their fee is 15%. And for a lot of people it’s more like 25%.

Yeah, I'm aware, but for the entities who have the revenue that justifies taking Apple or Google to court, it's 30%. Which is fairly egregious for a glorified package manager.

And in Apple's case an extremely restrictive package manger. Want to send encrypted notifications? Got to request the entitlements.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#459

Post by icehawk »

cyberax wrote: post #415
musictubes wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being that Apple isn't strong arming other companies into using their App Store. Google opens itself up to scrutiny because they both offer the ability to compete but then actively use their influence to try to stop that competition.

> The difference being that Apple isn't strong arming other companies into using their App Store. They do. It's either Apple store or you go out of business, if you are developing a mobile app.

But as a mobile app developer, I don't have to sell my app on the Apple app store.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#460

Post by pankajdoharey »

dragonwriter wrote: post #438
pankajdoharey wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they dont look at precedents in court system in USA ?

> So they dont look at precedents in court system in USA ? I literally described how that impacts things: "The appellate process and the system of binding precedent goes with it serves to somewhat make things more consistent overall than individual trial court processes would when considered over a longer time and a larger number of cases".

Its funny how "binding precedent" doesnt apply to the same court that gave both decisions. It is the Northern district Court of california. Thus precedents mean nothing and Jury is free to give arbitrary decisions.
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