I fail to understand how HN and the court system do not think the same against Apple
If Google has the monopoly, Apple, by definition, cannot.
Google only has the monopoly in Android app distribution. Apple has it in iOS app distribution.
Epic vs. Google: Google Loses
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Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
there is no sanction in the US for monopolies if the market chooses that, you just cant do anticompetitive things in the process or while you have one so simply being in the exact same position is not enough, the details of exactly how you navigate it are more important with that in mind, Apple is still vulnerable based on their behavior, but its not a slam dunk by mere nature of being in the same position for exampl…
But they are not in the exact same position - Apple has a much tighter grip on their App Store than Google, and they don’t even need to: they make money selling the devices.
I'm sure that's how Google feels! "Unfairly competing in the 'Android app distribution market'?? We are Android!!"
This is one of those legal situations I really can't wrap my head around, though. The point is the situations are different enough it would have to be a different legal framework for Apple's situation, and a different day in court.
I think a ruling like this is good. We need more checks on Google, Apple, Amazon, etc.
Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses
#383Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
The jury found that Google has a monopoly on the Android platform. That would extend to Apple and iOS, but I’ll be shocked if that finding is turned into a legal precedent that is upheld on appeal. For one thing, the jury is probably more technically savvy than the judges that will ultimately decide this case.
Monopolies are not illegal. It’s leveraging the monopoly to exert force on adjacent markets that is. In the case here googles foul play is making side deals for preferential treatment against other app stores given their control over the handset operating system. Apple doesn’t offer an App Store market and never has nor ever represented otherwise, the app store is and always has been part of the operating system. Thi…
According to https://www.justice.gov/archives/atr/competition-and-monopol... it does not have to be about adjacent markets. Maintaining a monopoly alone can be illegal, depending on the means.
Blocking all other means of distributing apps in a reasonable way absolutely should have been enough to get Apple sanctioned. Blocking alternatives with economic incentives is now forbidden, but blocking the access using code is allowed. This is stupid.
But sure, jury trial. And also US judges in this area are especially broken, with their warped understanding of when a monopoly is harmful.
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Of course the other part of this is stupid as well. It should be illegal to have a monopoly, and it's the job of the government to break monopolies to enable competition. The US has it completely backwards here, and this is a big reason why that country is failing in key areas of economic development and infrastructure.
Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses
#385Couple of thoughts for HN as a lawyer: 1. The fact that Google lost here doesn't bind or affect apple. Jury verdicts aren't binding on any party other than those in the lawsuit. Apple may or may not be found to violate the law in a separate case. 2. Interesting no one has mentioned Epic's Chinese ownership. I could see Google complaining to us govt that it's unfair for Chinese tech to win these court cases against US…
Epic is majority owned by Sweeney
Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
um but does Apple not have a monopoly on the iOS distribution system? if anything, Android is open to competition against Google. I'm baffled
Google lost this lawsuit because they were engaging in anticompetitive behavior on android by paying off companies to not produce third party app stores (like Riot) and paying phone manufacturers to not ship third party stores Google, as evidenced by their own internal docs and company deals, had no interest in having any real competition for the Google Play store. It’s really hard to see these deals when Google is t…
> ... anticompetitive behavior on android by paying off companies to not produce third party app stores
What if they didn't just pay off, but forcefully forbid it, wouldn't it be anticompetitive? Basically, as Apple does on iOS.
Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
> When someone comes to your store and says "I'll wreck your store unless you cut me 30% of your revenue" that's the mafia. That's exactly what Apple does. If you make a mobile app (for example, a presentation manager) you _have_ to support iOS, or you will go out of business. As a developer, you simply don't have a choice. You have to either support iOS, or get out of mobile apps entirely.
Apparently you read only half the comment. Do you understand the distinction between destruction and construction or don't you? By your logic there would be no towns, cities, countries, unions, companies, any kind of organization at all. Because any time you need to pay for something, you feel like it's the mafia. - Is it the mafia when it comes time to pay time for rent. "I HAVE to pay rent or I'll be kicked out on…
> Apparently you read only half the comment. Do you understand the distinction between destruction and construction or don't you?
Are you a part of mafia? How else would you defend Apple that is bent on destruction?
Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses
#388I still don't know how the jury squares the circle on Play Store being a monopoly when F-Droid is right there... But the thing about juries is they don't have to. Good news for Epic.
Is F-Droid preinstalled on any major android phones?
Microsoft was convicted of having a Windows/Internet Explorer monopoly despite the existence of Netscape and the Mac.
Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think Madeofpalk’s comment explains the (possible) issue very well. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38608075 Apple has always been “here’s the rules, follow or go away”. Google was “we’re open!” except they kept undermining that.
It doesn't matter for US legal system how their marketing call that. It's either legal or not.
Presumably there was a practical side to the difference in approach beyond marketing.
Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses
#390I fail to understand how HN and the court system do not think the same against Apple
HN does generally feel the same about Apple. 30% cut is egregious especially when they give favors to certain app owners. “Court System” is very contextual: the Texas Supreme Court just blocked a woman getting an abortion for a non-viable pregnancy.
Maybe pick an analogy that isn’t picture perfect for starting a flame war? I don’t think it edifies anyone to bring that debate into a discussion about intellectual property rights.