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Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

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Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#361

Post by jongjong »

MBCook wrote: post #349
jongjong wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The message I got is that everything is corrupt. I hope Google execs and shareholders also got that message. Now finally some big guys are getting a sense of the issue with centralization. There can only be one government-ordained winner and it's not the one who plays fair and square who wins. It's usually the biggest political manipulator. Google is in a weak position now due to the perceived risk of AI disrupting i…

Are you suggesting that Google lost this lawsuit because the government decided they don’t matter anymore because they don’t have good enough AI on the market?

No. I'm suggesting that Apple won theirs because they are more important in the eyes of the corrupt government and that's what it takes to win. There can only be one winner. Second place is a loser.

Just wait 10 or 20 years. Watch the system concentrate wealth in fewer and fewer hands and people blame everything under the sun except the design of the system. I think the winner will probably be either Microsoft or Oracle because they are the most corrupt.

Seriously, does Microsoft or Oracle do anything useful these days? No, they just extort money from the government via overpriced proprietary software licenses, lock-ins and contracts obtained through corrupt practices. That's what winners do.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#362

Post by MBCook »

hatsix wrote: post #353
colechristensen wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Apple's deal with Netflix anticompetitive though? Google is paying hardware manufacturers to use their search and for exclusivity with their store. Both of those are more or less explicitly to keep out competition. Apple cut a deal with Netflix but what competition does it squash? These are just different issues.

It squashes competition with Netflix

But Apple didn’t decide that only Netflix could be on their platform. And they didn’t take money to cause problems for other streaming video services.

That’s what Google did according to the verdict. They paid money to stop competitors.

In fact Apple negotiated that deal to keep Netflix on the platform because Netflix wasn’t happy paying 30% (surprise). It’s not good that they’re playing favorites secretly, but it’s not the same thing

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#364

Post by [deleted] »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #302
LordKeren wrote: post #2

It will be extremely interesting to see how this shapes android going forward. Google didn’t just lose some point— they lost every point > The jury unanimously answered yes to every question put before them — that Google has monopoly power in the Android app distribution markets and in-app billing services markets, that Google did anticompetitive things in those markets, and that Epic was injured by that behavior. Th…

How is this not all true for Apple and its app store?

[deleted]

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#365

Post by summerlight »

lolinder wrote: post #279
summerlight wrote: post #198

Looks like Epic is getting almost everything they wanted from both Google and Apple, given that EU is giving their hands to do all the jobs necessary for the Apple's case. Those two stores will remain dominant (>95% share) for a foreseeable future, but at least customers will have a choice. Now I wonder what if Google/Apple decided to decrease their cut to a more reasonable level, around 10~15%? App store/Play store…

> Looks like Epic is getting almost everything they wanted from both Google and Apple, given that EU It remains to be seen whether Apple will comply with EU rules outside of the EU. If not, Epic isn't getting their way, because EU revenue alone isn't going to be enough.

Whenever DMA kicks in, I'm reasonably sure that there will be a number of state legislatures to follow this case, which will practically enforce Apple to open up the App store in the US.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#366

Post by dragonwriter »

hackernewds wrote: post #267

I fail to understand how HN and the court system do not think the same against Apple

> I fail to understand how HN and the court system do not think the same against Apple

"The court system" is not a collective entity with a shared set of thoughts. Different judges, different arguments, in one case (but not the other) a jury, these things make a difference.

The appellate process and the system of binding precedent goes with it serves to somewhat make things more consistent overall than individual trial court processes would when considered over a longer time and a larger number of cases, but cases very close in time ending up with different trial court decisions despite broadly similar fact patterns are not really surprising.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#367

Post by bhelkey »

martimarkov wrote: post #169
e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #22

I wonder what the remedies will be -- sideloading is already allowed, so allowing third party in-app billing? That seems to be the actual thing the juries said -- that Google used their dominant position to do anticompetitive things, among which is taking their 30% cut on everything. Hope that this happens to Apple eventually too.

Hope it doesn't happen to Apple as I like and prefer that I can only buy stuff and most importantly have a single place to cancel all my subscriptions without dark patterns like having to talk to a person to cancel. I'll again make my argument that the developers should respect the choice of the users. If the user chose iOS maybe they chose it because they wanted the curated experience and the locked it product. I ce…

> guys, it's a phone/tablet. The consoles are much more like a General Purpose Computers

Some five billion people have a smart phone [1]. For many it's the primary way they access the Internet.

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/203734/global-smartphone....

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#368

Post by MBCook »

scythe wrote: post #346
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't need to strike secret deals to keep out alternative app stores because they've made alternate app stores completely impossible. If the result of this case is "you can have a monopoly as long as your device and ecosystem are 100% locked down", that's terrible!

IANAL, but it's my understanding that courts like to stick to what they know. Apple's arguments about iOS security are rooted in abstruse technical concepts that a judge probably prefers to avoid ruling on directly, while Google's backroom wheeling and dealing is the kind of conventional skulduggery that is immediately recognized as an offense.

I don’t think it’s because Apple conned them over.

Google said you could start your own App Store and then secretly undermined people who tried to start their own App Store.

That’s what they got in trouble for. There is no evidence of Apple making backroom deals to prevent people from doing things Apple said they could.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#369

Post by musictubes »

hackernewds wrote: post #276
LordKeren wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this was not a court case about if Google has a phone OS monopoly. This was about if Google has a monopoly within the android ecosystem when it comes to app distribution. The jury ruled that they have a monopoly within android, and that they used this monopoly to stifle competition. They cited that Google used its influence as the makers of android to get phone manufacturers to not preinstall third party app stor…

um but does Apple not have a monopoly on the iOS distribution system? if anything, Android is open to competition against Google. I'm baffled

The difference being that Apple isn't strong arming other companies into using their App Store. Google opens itself up to scrutiny because they both offer the ability to compete but then actively use their influence to try to stop that competition.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#370

Post by DeIlliad »

scarface_74 wrote: post #126
DeIlliad wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We learned in the Epic v. Apple trial that Apple cut sweetheart deals with Netflix and other companies as well. Am I missing how this is different?

You mean like Epic cut with console makers for co-marketing dollars or like every company does with large customers? I’ve got news for you - AWS also cut special deals with AWS, Spotify with GCP and OpenAI with Azure. Do you really think large comoanirs get the same deals as the creator of random Indy app maker?

What are you even talking about and how is it relevant to what I'm asking? You seem to be leaping to Apple's defense as if you're taking a bullet for them but it isn't really necessary here.
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