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The Secret Behind Qualcomm's Margins? Patents

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Re: The Secret Behind Qualcomm's Margins? Patents

#11
post #7

Qualcomm does have a nice margin (20%) [ https://valustox.com/QCOM ] but this is roughly in line with other big co's in the industry. Motorola makes 18% [ https://valustox.com/MSI ] Broadcom, Nvidia, and even Texas Instruments are around 40%! [ https://valustox.com/AVGO , https://valustox.com/NVDA , https://valustox.com/TXN ]. Intel and AMD bring up the rear with 1.8% and 0.5%. [ https://valustox.com/INTC , https://v…

It's so weird that an oligopolistic industry with the largest barriers to entry (your average CPU factory will cost $5/10+ billions, and that's just the factory) have the lowest margin, by far. Why is that so?

Re: The Secret Behind Qualcomm's Margins? Patents

#12
post #7

Qualcomm does have a nice margin (20%) [ https://valustox.com/QCOM ] but this is roughly in line with other big co's in the industry. Motorola makes 18% [ https://valustox.com/MSI ] Broadcom, Nvidia, and even Texas Instruments are around 40%! [ https://valustox.com/AVGO , https://valustox.com/NVDA , https://valustox.com/TXN ]. Intel and AMD bring up the rear with 1.8% and 0.5%. [ https://valustox.com/INTC , https://v…

The article specifically refers to the patent division of Qualcomm which has margin of 68%

Re: The Secret Behind Qualcomm's Margins? Patents

#13
post #6

This is the patent system working as intended. Protection for technology development. You may say it limits innovation. But it also protects smaller players from investing in innovation, by de-risking that a big customer might copy them and destroy their business. Which is mostly this scenario. I think the bigger problem with the patent system is the patent trolls. Please someone solve that problem.

Unless I misunderstand, they are codifying their patents into open standards like 5G. So you can't implement 5G without their patents. Add that to encouraging complexity (10,000+ pages of spec to do something outwardly similar to WiFi), and they have a really effective moat around an "open" standard. The entire protocol space is somewhat arbitrary. This is a bit like patenting a strategy in a board game you created,…

I've been saying for years that patents and copyrights should be ruled out in communication protocols and communication formats, including file formats, file systems, languages, APIs and even fonts.

Re: The Secret Behind Qualcomm's Margins? Patents

#14

I question who this article is for - having worked at Qualcomm, they beat you over the head on how their business is built on patents and how they were going to go belly up some 20 years ago had they not pivoted to this model. I can't imagine a single analyst or anyone interested in the company not aware of their business model in the same way it doesn't take long to figure out that Apple is in the business of sellin…

I think this is valuable for those outside of Qualcomm to understand why they have the role that they do in the mobile space. Having worked there as well I have two observations:

- So much of that wall of patents was undergrad level CS concepts with ", for mobile device" tacked on the end. Paraphrasing, don't sue me (kidding..), but that was the gist of it.

- Their actual development process was pretty bad. I submitted a bug fix within the first few weeks I was there. Due to their CI process being entirely manual and very broken I was informed nearly a year later that my fix did not work. This tied in pretty well with my department being told they had a "budget"[1] of lines of code they could change and that budget being pretty limited.

Overall I left with an impression that they were mostly there to license very old technology and make money from patents. Maybe their hardware team was better, I couldn't say.

[1] Most of the effort of our team was spent debugging crash dumps determined to be in "our" part of the code. Nearly all of these were caused by other teams calling into an API we maintained with a null function pointer that "our" code would call. When I asked if we could refactor the API to return an error code if the function pointer was null I learned about the "code budget" and how it would cost too much to refactor.

Re: The Secret Behind Qualcomm's Margins? Patents

#15
post #5

This is the patent system working as intended. Protection for technology development. You may say it limits innovation. But it also protects smaller players from investing in innovation, by de-risking that a big customer might copy them and destroy their business. Which is mostly this scenario. I think the bigger problem with the patent system is the patent trolls. Please someone solve that problem.

Patents don't protect smaller players -- enforcement is cost-prohibitive. The only sector that could plausibly justify patents is biotech... but even there, the vast majority of early R&D is publicly-funded, and thus should negate protection. A Government-mandated monopoly on ideas may have made sense at some point, but it's antiquated today. Today they serve to stifle innovation, extract rent and act as yet another…

In fact they have the opposite effect on smaller players. The big players all have a few thousand (junk) patents and they make deals with each other to exclude the smaller players, who can't afford to file thousands of patents to join the club.

Re: The Secret Behind Qualcomm's Margins? Patents

#16

I question who this article is for - having worked at Qualcomm, they beat you over the head on how their business is built on patents and how they were going to go belly up some 20 years ago had they not pivoted to this model. I can't imagine a single analyst or anyone interested in the company not aware of their business model in the same way it doesn't take long to figure out that Apple is in the business of sellin…

I guess it's for me, I've never worked at Qualcomm.

You may find this episode of the Acquired Podcast interesting. https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/acquired/id1050462261?...

Re: The Secret Behind Qualcomm's Margins? Patents

#18
post #15
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patents don't protect smaller players -- enforcement is cost-prohibitive. The only sector that could plausibly justify patents is biotech... but even there, the vast majority of early R&D is publicly-funded, and thus should negate protection. A Government-mandated monopoly on ideas may have made sense at some point, but it's antiquated today. Today they serve to stifle innovation, extract rent and act as yet another…

In fact they have the opposite effect on smaller players. The big players all have a few thousand (junk) patents and they make deals with each other to exclude the smaller players, who can't afford to file thousands of patents to join the club.

Or worse, a small player developing something and then finding out after the fact that a junk patent prevents them from even selling the thing to begin with.

Re: The Secret Behind Qualcomm's Margins? Patents

#19

This is the patent system working as intended. Protection for technology development. You may say it limits innovation. But it also protects smaller players from investing in innovation, by de-risking that a big customer might copy them and destroy their business. Which is mostly this scenario. I think the bigger problem with the patent system is the patent trolls. Please someone solve that problem.

We like to talk about the specific effects of the patent system (protects the little guy, etc), but we rarely talk about the cumulative effects of it.

The more I look at the small innovators, they are all hungry to improve upon things the big companies are sitting on for 20+ years with a big moat to protect them, and I really get to thinking that in aggregate we are doing more harm than good.

A response I hear is "then no one would invest" and I think that's false. The investment landscape would change from a small number of big investments to a larger number of smaller investments - investing in tooling to help you beat the competition next year, but not necessarily giving you a 10 year investment for your big dream. And I think that's fine - people still want to innovate and the market already rewards innovators. It is not clear to me that government mandated restrictions on innovation are a good idea at all, and none of the common talking points really engage with the facts as I see them.

Take a look at FDM 3D printers. They went from $50k to $25k in the 13 years they were for sale and under patent protection, and then 10 years after patent protection ended they were $250 and sold by a wide variety of companies all over the world.

How many of today's patented goods could be made for 100x cheaper without patents and what is the cumulative effect of manufacturing machinery, medical equipment, washing machines, computers, and more being 100x cheaper? Is our world really better without that?

Re: The Secret Behind Qualcomm's Margins? Patents

#20
post #11
post #7

Qualcomm does have a nice margin (20%) [ https://valustox.com/QCOM ] but this is roughly in line with other big co's in the industry. Motorola makes 18% [ https://valustox.com/MSI ] Broadcom, Nvidia, and even Texas Instruments are around 40%! [ https://valustox.com/AVGO , https://valustox.com/NVDA , https://valustox.com/TXN ]. Intel and AMD bring up the rear with 1.8% and 0.5%. [ https://valustox.com/INTC , https://v…

It's so weird that an oligopolistic industry with the largest barriers to entry (your average CPU factory will cost $5/10+ billions, and that's just the factory) have the lowest margin, by far. Why is that so?

I guess that is what competition brings to the table.
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