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To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

nytimes.com

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Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#71

Post by jdminhbg »

legitster wrote: post #57

Drug legalization is something I have come 180 on (or at least, 90 degrees). Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc. ODs have more than doubled, and the shelters are half empty! They are not one more social program away from cleaning out the streets. I think the experiment has radically failed and I'm ready to say I was wrong. While I don't want to go back t…

> Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc.

Huge sums were collected, but they haven't really been spent. As noted elsewhere in this thread, the first detox center built with M110 money only opened two months ago, and only has 16 beds: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/homeless/new-se-portl...

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#72

Post by rokkitmensch »

rokkitmensch wrote: post #15

What is this "potent new methamphetamine"? Mainstream outlets keep parroting this line, but I have yet to see any convincing chemistry.

To answer my own question, the phenylacetone process is cheaper, simpler, and produces higher purity (~90% from 80%) product.

Smells like drugwar propaganda.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#73

Post by vore »

xvector wrote: post #61
vore wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the people using drugs out in public are already at rock bottom: there aren't many punishments you can use to deter that, short of putting them in jail and when they come out they're just going to be using drugs in public all over again. I'm somewhat receptive to the idea of mandatory treatment but as it stands, "enforcing some harsh laws" doesn't do anything to curb recidivism – temporarily incar…

At the very least it cleans up the streets. I really don't care to see people shooting up every time I leave the BART. Enabling that is not a good use of my tax dollars.

If you're trying to save your tax dollars, you should really be in favor of letting people shoot up on the BART! After all, doing nothing costs nothing!

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#74

Post by reducesuffering »

xvector wrote: post #63
hnthrowaway6543 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Locking people up or making drugs illegal will change nothing but cause there to be more pain. Making drugs illegal and locking people up, or straight up executing them, is actually extremely effective at stopping drug addiction, as seen in many east Asian countries, particularly Japan, Korea and Singapore. As well as the middle east. It's an uncomfortable truth for the Western world because we don't like strict pu…

I do not know where the collective delusion that strict punishments do not work has come from. The data shows they work exceedingly well globally.

Not to mention every street interview with a criminal involves them gleefully detailing how they only get a misdemeanor and let out easily.

https://youtu.be/fbTrLyqL_nw?si=18V5sysqmf68LYr-&t=434

https://youtu.be/3eGbX-2VB_Q?si=0Lu5xny7Jbz7v_Tw&t=34

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#75

Post by vore »

kepler1 wrote: post #55
vore wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the people using drugs out in public are already at rock bottom: there aren't many punishments you can use to deter that, short of putting them in jail and when they come out they're just going to be using drugs in public all over again. I'm somewhat receptive to the idea of mandatory treatment but as it stands, "enforcing some harsh laws" doesn't do anything to curb recidivism – temporarily incar…

Well, what about the value of making clear to people that in case they fall over that edge and start using drugs, they will be punished? Police being able to arrest people and caution them, rather than being told to actively ignore it? In order to stop them from tempted to try it or go further, and prevent more people from joining that group? Or the people who deal drugs? Which decriminalization basically removed any…

The material problem is that their lives are often so miserable that feeling good from doing drugs even under threat of incarceration overrides most punishments you could dish out.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#76

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jsbisviewtiful wrote: post #10

It's really frustrating to see this headline. The officials decriminalized drugs, wiped their hands and backed off from any follow-up legislation to keep it working correctly. It reminds me a lot of the ACA. Officials got the bill passed and have collectively stopped making updates to the program to keep it healthy, but then constantly criticize its faults. American politics are sad in that it's hard to celebrate any…

I still don't see how "Drugs should be decriminalized because taking drugs is a victimless crime" and "Society needs to sync a lot of resources in tackling drug abuse" are compatible positions to hold at the same time.

Either let people do drugs and let them worry about the consequences, or, if society is going to be on the hook for the consequences, don't. There is no feasible way to hold both positions at the same time.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#77

Post by reducesuffering »

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #46
reducesuffering wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P2P meth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylacetone

P2P is a methamphetamine precursor, not a drug in itself AFAIK Edit: I did a search and can't find much. There seems to be a lot of bullshit but suspiciously little by way of solid info. The best I could find was this so-called super meth is simply higher in the dextro isomer which gives the high (the levo being less interesting effect-wise). But that's well known already so...?

Yes, but I'm answering what is commonly referred to as the "new meth" or "super meth." The higher purity involving P2P. For example: https://www.pharmchek.com/resources/blog/the-rise-of-super-m...

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#78

Post by legitster »

jdminhbg wrote: post #71
legitster wrote: post #57

Drug legalization is something I have come 180 on (or at least, 90 degrees). Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc. ODs have more than doubled, and the shelters are half empty! They are not one more social program away from cleaning out the streets. I think the experiment has radically failed and I'm ready to say I was wrong. While I don't want to go back t…

> Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc. Huge sums were collected, but they haven't really been spent. As noted elsewhere in this thread, the first detox center built with M110 money only opened two months ago, and only has 16 beds: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/homeless/new-se-portl...

While this is true, there were a lot of programs that existed before M110, and part of the bill of goods that was sold with M110 was that it was going to make it easier for people to access existing resources without fear of law enforcement.

And again, literally written into M110 is the idea that treatment is supposed to be cheaper than incarceration. Perhaps it's due to really bad red tape, but the treatment programs are not looking terribly cheap or effective.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#80

Post by gafage »

qingcharles wrote: post #66
legitster wrote: post #57

Drug legalization is something I have come 180 on (or at least, 90 degrees). Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc. ODs have more than doubled, and the shelters are half empty! They are not one more social program away from cleaning out the streets. I think the experiment has radically failed and I'm ready to say I was wrong. While I don't want to go back t…

This is such a hard problem to solve. I work with drug and alcohol addicts regularly and addiction is such a damned nightmare. And every homeless person hates shelters. They have way more rules than prisons and all of the drama. I don't know what the solutions are :(

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