Beeper Mini is back • Hacker News Board

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#571

Post by bee_rider » Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 8:40 PM UTC

unshavedyak wrote: post #540

graphe wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage is reliable, ‘free’ and encrypted. Beeper mini is unreliable, paid, and encrypted. I wouldn’t recommend it anymore to my Android friends.

Is it free? I have it bundled as part of my hardware purchases. Is there somewhere to get it without paying?

They put free in quotes because it is bundled in, I’m pretty sure. It is, from a user point of view, free if you are already buying an iPhone anyway.

I have no idea how to compute the actual price. It really isn’t any better than SMS anyway, so I put the value at $0.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#572

Post by GeekyBear » Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 8:40 PM UTC

kevinsync wrote: post #528

Maybe this came up in the earlier threads (announcement, outage) so I apologize if it's been discussed ... This project is fantastic. The hacker spirit is in full force, and I love a good David and Goliath story. However, all the comments about demanding interoperability and protocols keep confusing me -- I don't consider APNS a protocol (like TCP anyways), it's also not incidental, extra header space to stuff data i…

> Why does everybody feel entitled to use it if they're not using Apple products?

I hereby demand that Google stop making changes to YouTube that prevent ad blockers from working.

Or more to the point, I should have the right to sell hacked access to Microsoft's Office 365 servers to end users and Microsoft must not take any action that interferes in those user's access.

That's reasonable, right?

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#573

Post by fatnoah » Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 8:41 PM UTC

ksherlock wrote: post #560

kevinsync wrote: post #528

Maybe this came up in the earlier threads (announcement, outage) so I apologize if it's been discussed ... This project is fantastic. The hacker spirit is in full force, and I love a good David and Goliath story. However, all the comments about demanding interoperability and protocols keep confusing me -- I don't consider APNS a protocol (like TCP anyways), it's also not incidental, extra header space to stuff data i…

Apparently, blue bubble envy is a thing people have. The beeper home page mentions blue bubbles 9 times (and not being a green bubble twice). WSJ reported in August that 87% of teens have an iPhone so anybody with an android or a green bubble therefore stands out and is a loser. https://www.wsj.com/tech/personal-tech/why-teens-hate-androi...

My son had an Android phone. I don't think anyone considered him to be a loser, but he did get very sick of everyone why he had a green bubble.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#574

Post by hcurtiss » Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 8:41 PM UTC

snakeyjake wrote: post #374

tapoxi wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't 70% of American teenagers on iPhone because of the iMessage network effects? The whole "green bubble" shaming issue.

>The whole "green bubble" shaming issue. Even if that's a real thing and not an imaginary or minor phenomenon hyped up for clicks, it is hardly anti-trust-worthy. 70% of American teenagers may have access to iMessage due to it being on their phones but there is a 0.0% chance that, in aggregate, iMessage is in their top five most-used messaging apps.

I have teen girls in Oregon. iMessage is decidedly the number one messaging app. The others aren't even close. There's no universe where my daughters use anything but iPhones. For better or worse, their friend group deliberately excludes those who cannot use the full functionality of iMessage. In case you've forgotten, teen girls are not terribly "equity" minded, particularly when it comes to tech.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#575

Post by MissTake » Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 8:41 PM UTC

unshavedyak wrote: post #540

graphe wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage is reliable, ‘free’ and encrypted. Beeper mini is unreliable, paid, and encrypted. I wouldn’t recommend it anymore to my Android friends.

Is it free? I have it bundled as part of my hardware purchases. Is there somewhere to get it without paying?

It’s free. The fact it’s only available on Apple devices doesn’t change that fact.

You can only get Apple Fitness on Apple devices, but you also have to pay for it.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#576

Post by rezonant » Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 8:41 PM UTC

borski wrote: post #553

rezonant wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just one app that spoke a single protocol that all phones implement, like SMS used to be. That way you wouldn't have to install and juggle 20 apps to cover all of your friend's preferences, and manage which type of messenger they prefer over time.

Because then SMS would never progress, and we’d all be stuck with 140 characters under the hood along with optional subjects and zero security. There was no push for RCS until iMessage came along.

Internet Explorer introduced a lot of new capabilities to the web platform. Those features were highly innovative and we take them for granted today. But for many of those features they did not do the work to get them standardized, or under-standardized them. They did not work with other vendors to get them implemented. Apple's automatic replacement of SMS is similar and had the same result: vendor lock in.

Also it's worth noting that RCS originally launched in 2008, a year after the iPhone and iMessage launched in 2011. Many features we expect from both iMessage and RCS today were not present at the time, but a next-generation messaging spec was there- Apple chose not to engage with it- which is too bad because at the time Apple could have helped to defragment the implementations and make it a better specification. The carriers fumbled pretty hard on compatibility, also probably because they saw it as a way to produce vendor lock in for their customer base.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#577

Post by bee_rider » Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 8:41 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #567

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #518

As far as I understand, in order to talk to Apple iMessage services/backend (and all auth pieces) you need a "legit" Apple ID and legit Apple hardware model #s / serial #s If you don't have that, how are they able to get auth tokens / send messages around without basically "exploiting a hidden hack that might get patched"?

I wonder why Apple lawyers don't go after Beeper with the CFAA?

Maybe they will… but, also, I bet they can change their systems faster than the court system.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#578

Post by MuffinFlavored » Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 8:42 PM UTC

asylteltine wrote: post #561

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why is it Apple's responsibility to accept a non-legit/unknown serial #?

It’s not, and they don’t. This is a cat and mouse game. Apple is free to block these and people are free to keep trying to get around it. Everyone should be acting in good faith

> It’s not, and they don’t.

> they don't

They (Apple) don't accept requests without a valid serial #, but Beeper Mini is working (for users without iDevices), so there's some kind of exploit, no?

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#579

Post by hamandcheese » Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 8:42 PM UTC

kevinsync wrote: post #528

Maybe this came up in the earlier threads (announcement, outage) so I apologize if it's been discussed ... This project is fantastic. The hacker spirit is in full force, and I love a good David and Goliath story. However, all the comments about demanding interoperability and protocols keep confusing me -- I don't consider APNS a protocol (like TCP anyways), it's also not incidental, extra header space to stuff data i…

I am an Apple user. I've owned more iPhones and MacBooks than I can remember.

I am the one who foots the bill for iMessage and APNS.

I want to be able to message my friends with Androids with the same ease as I do my friends with iPhones.

I also would like to be able to access my messages when I run Asahi Linux on my MacBook.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#580

Post by waynesonfire » Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 8:43 PM UTC

kevinsync wrote: post #528

Maybe this came up in the earlier threads (announcement, outage) so I apologize if it's been discussed ... This project is fantastic. The hacker spirit is in full force, and I love a good David and Goliath story. However, all the comments about demanding interoperability and protocols keep confusing me -- I don't consider APNS a protocol (like TCP anyways), it's also not incidental, extra header space to stuff data i…

> It's Apple's private message delivery system!

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