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Beeper Mini is back

blog.beeper.com

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Re: Beeper Mini is back

#401

Post by microtonal »

freedomben wrote: post #303
exabrial wrote: post #280

Apple is writing their own death sentence here. Beeper Mini's case will definitely be used against them when their anti-monopoly case inevitably comes about: 1. Forcing a monopoly when they force-migrated their users to iMessage 2. Maintaining said monopoly by keeping third parties out Best thing they could do is put third party clients into a MFI like program and loads of red tape.

Why do you think an anti-monopoly case will ever come? Europe has dropped it, and US pretty much everyone in power (and all their families/friends) is an iphone user. They're probably completely unaware that there's a problem, and even if made aware they have positive vibes for Big Gray

The EU hasn't dropped it. The consultation period is still ongoing, the news was that the EU is only tending towards not regulating iMessage, but it is not set in stone yet:

https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/06/imessage-will-reportedly-g...

It is very much possible that the current kerfuffle has some bearing on future regulation.

That said, iMessage is not really big in Europe, Whatsapp is, so it's more interesting for the EU to regulate that.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#402

Post by greatquux »

Jtsummers wrote: post #275
theshrike79 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...in the US. The rest of the world uses Telegram, WhatsApp and Signal. This blue/green bubble SMS but not SMS -thing is a 100% an American issue.

It's really not an American issue. It's an immature people issue. I've yet to meet anyone who actually cares about whether their messages show up as blue or green when they send them. My social network (in the US) is about 50/50 for Android and iPhone users, and we have a variety of group threads that have both types of phones in them. The only people that care are: - Maybe some children - Some immature adults - A lo…

100%. It's nice to have the typing status, delivered/read status, higher quality of pictures, etc. But I could care less what color it is, and group conversations with SMS/MMS work pretty darn well. I would like a desktop SMS/MMS/iMessage client for my Linux desktop though without having to run a Mac.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#403

Post by SparkyMcUnicorn »

LordKeren wrote: post #26

I think one of the underlying issues is that many are now going to be hesitant to even bother with Beeper Mini anymore. I don’t think there is going to be a high tolerance for this game of cat and mouse from the end user perspective I also don’t think goading apple is going to do much here either. Regardless of the current feelings around apple’s walled garden, they are not going to suddenly keel over and give up on…

Right now Beeper Mini only works without registering your phone number, and I'd be ok if that's all I ever got. In fact, I hope they make number registration optional if they do get that working again.

I still have my Macbook if/when Beeper is cut off again.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#404

Post by [deleted] »

averageRoyalty wrote: post #320

> We—of course—expected a response. What we didn’t expect was 1984-esque doublespeak. The statement is complete FUD. Beeper Mini made communication between Android and iPhone users more secure. That is a fact. Is it? Their argument about a potential increase in spam (by removing the existing annoyance barrier of signing up to iMessage with a phone number before getting full access) is valid. And from their perspectiv…

[deleted]

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#405

Post by SpaceManNabs »

_gabe_ wrote: post #387
SpaceManNabs wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technie vs normie divide exemplified right here in these comments. You don't hear iPhone users begging their friends to get on signal unless they are discussing drugs or sensitive topics. You hear android users ask iphone users to install wtv app all the time. And I am talking about anecdotes here, but there are well-document events (some that happened this year) that do emphasize what I am saying. I won't share…

I didn’t mention this, because it doesn’t matter. I use an iPhone. I’m writing this on an iPhone. I use a MacBook. Why the heck should I care about my friends and family paying some “Apple status” fee to get an iPhone just so I can share pictures and videos with them? > iPhone users mostly just want android users to get iphones. Doesn't matter why. This is anecdotal. Where is the data proclaiming this? I’ve never per…

> Why the heck should I care about my friends and family paying some “Apple status” fee to get an iPhone just so I can share pictures and videos with them?

You might not. It is clear that the majority of iphone users don't care that android users keep complaining about green vs blue bubbles.

> Where is the data proclaiming this?

Use the mobile app usage data repository that your company provides or wtv data subscription (Bloomberg, data.ai, etc) that your company provides. After looking at aggregate, segment by iOS vs android. Hell, if you work in the mobile app space, you already know just how difficult it is to get iOS users to shift away from the apple default.

> I don’t know where you’re getting these ideas from.

like i said, techie vs normie divide. Funny you keep mentioning anecdotes when we can clearly look at the market forces. Apple isn't being pressured to change anything because their users just find it easier for others to switch to iPhone.

As others have remarked, my perspective is US-centric.

> I’ve never personally met somebody that cares what brand of phone you have.

This is incorrect, or you don't meet many people. They exist.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#406

Post by hjkdgshkdfjhg »

lacker wrote: post #148
qrohlf wrote: post #29

I’m curious what their best-case outcome is here. It’s fully transparent at this point that Apple has no appetite for a third party iMessage client on any platform and will take whatever technical steps needed to prevent this from happening. I’d wager heavily that even if Beeper plays cat-and-mouse to the point where they’ve exhausted Apple’s budget for blocking them and somehow managed to avoid Apple’s legal team pu…

The best case outcome is to get publicity leading to US and EU antitrust regulators to file a lawsuit against Apple, both of which Apple loses. The conclusion of this lawsuit is that not only must Apple allow access to iMessage, they also must allow changing the default for every component of iOS - messaging app, browser, app store, let you replace Siri with other voice assistants - and to lower the 30% app store fee…

Best case outcome for who? Super happy user of Apple here, I would hate that outcome.

Apple shit just works, I like my wallet garden, don't want third party trash or getting spammed from android clients.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#407

Post by misnome »

UmYeahNo wrote: post #249
lopkeny12ko wrote: post #220

Beeper has caught a ton of media attention in recent weeks but I truly do not understand it. The SMS protocol has been around for decades and works perfectly fine with iPhones. If you want rich media and other bells and whistles, use WhatsApp. How often does someone whine so loudly about insisting on using the closed, Apple-proprietary protocol that their friends need to pay a monthly subscription for a third party i…

I tell you what, if you're a young person you can be publicly shamed for having the wrong color bubble, or outcast by being excluded from a group chat. To you and I that probably doesn't make sense, but for a big portion of the young, phone using population being unable to participate in the iMessage ecosystem is a huge deal socially. You are essentially excluded from the friend group, you're excluded from conversati…

If you are a young person you can be publicly shamed for literally anything. If not this then a million other things.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#408

Post by mike_d »

modeless wrote: post #343
mike_d wrote: post #330

> If Apple insists, we would consider adding a pager emoji to metadata on all messages sent via Beeper Mini. This would make it easy for Messages App to filter out any messages from Beeper Mini users. As an iPhone user I would love for them to do this so I can not communicate with these users. The green/blue bubble gives me an indication of the encryption being used, and presenting a blue bubble while the messages ar…

Beeper Mini does not MITM messages. E2EE is maintained throughout. More so than iMessage actually, which sends all your encryption keys to Apple in the most common configuration (iCloud backup). Where's your concern about that?

That is not true. iMessage content is encrypted in iCloud with keys stored in your keychain only accessible to your devices. When you add a new device to your account it learns the keys from one of your existing devices and requires touch/face ID approval. In an "all devices lost" situation the keychain is backed up to iCloud but encrypted using a key stored in an HSM that requires authentication using things only you know but are never transmitted to Apple using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Remote_Password_protoco...

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#409

Post by TeMPOraL »

snakeyjake wrote: post #290
lacker wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best case outcome is to get publicity leading to US and EU antitrust regulators to file a lawsuit against Apple, both of which Apple loses. The conclusion of this lawsuit is that not only must Apple allow access to iMessage, they also must allow changing the default for every component of iOS - messaging app, browser, app store, let you replace Siri with other voice assistants - and to lower the 30% app store fee…

How is this an actionable anti-trust issue? iMessage doesn't even register as a messaging platform in the minds of most users globally. In the US is it dwarfed by at least three other platforms. Globally, do any of the other top ten (Apple is nowhere near the top ten) messaging apps allow third parties to spoof their service? The purpose of anti-trust is to increase competition and prevent unlawful monopolies. Apple…

> How is this an actionable anti-trust issue?

How is this less of an issue than Microsoft integrating Internet Explorer with Windows back in the day?

The shit Google and Apple seem to be getting away with these days would make regulators of yore spin in their graves.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#410

Post by rpmisms »

g0atbutt wrote: post #363

The funniest outcome with this whole “Apple vs. Beeper” saga would be if Apple said, “Fine use the iMessage protocol. We won’t break interoperability and you can even have full feature parity… BUT… Any messages sent this way will still show up as the dreaded “Green Bubble”. (I hope Eric and the Beeper team can pull through!)

If the green bubble (or teal bubble or whatever) works with iMessage, I will be happy. It's about the functionality, not the status symbol.

For many people, it is about not looking like a brokie to their peers, and that's what apple counts on.

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