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Who will lead the charge to a four-day work week?

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Re: Who will lead the charge to a four-day work week?

#101

Post by Shaanie »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #34
Syonyk wrote: post #13

I've "corrupted" (from the point of view of GDP productivity and such) a lot of people into asking for (and mostly getting...) a 32h/week work schedule. I've been doing it for almost 8 years now, and at this point, it's simply a non-negotiable in any sort of employment discussions (that, and not carrying a pager). I work Mon-Thu, 8h/day, and I'm generally unreachable Fri/Sat/Sun (doesn't mean I won't put in a long we…

Wonder how many software devs would be able to do this. When I have a long weekend, a lot of times, its 'finally, no interruptions so I can get some work done', and end up working. Guess, if you have an itch, could fill it with open source projects instead.

I'd wager the majority of software developers do not code at all outside of work hours, and the vast majority do not code more than an hour or two per month on average.

The "constantly coding on side projects" developer is pretty rare, in my experience, but tend to bubble together. (in startups, cooler tech companies or in the "innovation teams").

Re: Who will lead the charge to a four-day work week?

#102

Post by squigz »

burkaman wrote: post #28
Syonyk wrote: post #13

I've "corrupted" (from the point of view of GDP productivity and such) a lot of people into asking for (and mostly getting...) a 32h/week work schedule. I've been doing it for almost 8 years now, and at this point, it's simply a non-negotiable in any sort of employment discussions (that, and not carrying a pager). I work Mon-Thu, 8h/day, and I'm generally unreachable Fri/Sat/Sun (doesn't mean I won't put in a long we…

> it aligns better with my family (the local public school is only Mon-Thu as well) This is interesting and makes me think the answer to the title's question is public schools. Most Americans are not in a position to individually ask their employer for a 4-day week, but if the local school system does it, suddenly there's a unified block of thousands of people who really need Friday off to take care of their kids. I…

Would anyone be able to link to data on the effect shortening the school week has on education?

Re: Who will lead the charge to a four-day work week?

#104

Post by mytailorisrich »

dustincoates wrote: post #99
mytailorisrich wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France primary schools are traditionally off on Wednesdays and when I was there it wasn't uncommon for mostly women to have that arrangement: 80% pay but Wednesdays off.

However, they also traditionally had school on Saturday, right? For some reason, that made me irrationally upset when I thought of my kids going to school on Saturdays. I get the argument behind it (it let's the parents take care of things outside of work), but it seems like it also would prevent family outings. Best I can tell, most schools no longer have classes on Saturday, but they do have Wednesday morning at le…

Yes, used to be Saturday mornings.

No school on Wednesdays but school on Saturday mornings is definitely not the most convenient from the parents' POV.

Re: Who will lead the charge to a four-day work week?

#105

Post by nine_k »

Syonyk wrote: post #13

I've "corrupted" (from the point of view of GDP productivity and such) a lot of people into asking for (and mostly getting...) a 32h/week work schedule. I've been doing it for almost 8 years now, and at this point, it's simply a non-negotiable in any sort of employment discussions (that, and not carrying a pager). I work Mon-Thu, 8h/day, and I'm generally unreachable Fri/Sat/Sun (doesn't mean I won't put in a long we…

I'd be tidally fine working 40h a week in four 10h days. A whole new free day is such an improvement that longer hours on other days can't hope to outweigh it.

Re: Who will lead the charge to a four-day work week?

#106

Post by wharvle »

darreninthenet wrote: post #48
savanaly wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even in the anti-WFH camp, but notice you've selectively omitted the most sympathetic camp (what is this argument tactic called? Strawmanning?). People who think teams will be more agile and innovative when they can have impromptu face-to-face conversations. I personally think that's true, but not a big enough deal to make me favor RTO. But it's not good to summarize an issue in such a way that the other side…

Hasn't it been disproven now though? My employer at the time during lockdown saw productivity and collaboration increase, and they are a mostly agile approach organisation. And there are many companies large and small with mostly or fully remote teams delivering complex projects every day as we speak. Whilst I'm sure there are edge cases where that face to face actually is essential, the idea that for teams to be agi…

People exist who basically can’t think in writing, on their own. They need someone actively working with them, in conversation, to put their thoughts together coherently—and, sometimes, for them to be able to understand others, as no amount of carefully and thoughtfully composed prose will get ideas into their heads without misunderstanding. IME they’re well-represented in management and other leadership. Not the majority, but there are lots of them. Some make it all the way to the top.

I get why such folks might hate WFH, especially if they believe that their personal difficulties are more common than they are, so others must not be able to function as remote workers, either, and especially that people couldn’t possibly efficiently come up with and refine ideas under remote work.

Re: Who will lead the charge to a four-day work week?

#107

Post by euroderf »

jaymzcampbell wrote: post #2

I swapped to a 4 day week (with relevant pay cut, which certainly made it easier to justify with my employer) in order to finish my MSc without burnout and it's changed my life. The entire balance of the working week has changed - 4 days is almost a 50-50 split which makes an enormous difference to your psychology (0.57:0.71). My employer has stated they've not noticed any change in productivity either, including on…

> 4 days is almost a 50-50 split

If you're off from (say) Thursday 5pm until Monday 9am, that's 88 consecutive hours away from work, out of a week of 168 hours. Winning!

Re: Who will lead the charge to a four-day work week?

#108

Post by saulpw »

MisterTea wrote: post #67
Syonyk wrote: post #13

I've "corrupted" (from the point of view of GDP productivity and such) a lot of people into asking for (and mostly getting...) a 32h/week work schedule. I've been doing it for almost 8 years now, and at this point, it's simply a non-negotiable in any sort of employment discussions (that, and not carrying a pager). I work Mon-Thu, 8h/day, and I'm generally unreachable Fri/Sat/Sun (doesn't mean I won't put in a long we…

I negotiated a 4 day week as well and won't go back either. You cant beat having a three day weekend and Fridays off. A co worker does the same but takes Mondays off which works for his family better. I would also like to try a split week: work mon-tues, off wed, work thurs-fri, off sat-sun. This way you have a mini weekend giving you two "friday nights" and there's no weekly gauntlet to run.

I tried a split week with a similar rationale, it wasn't that great. Too hard to get momentum, either at work or at home. I also tried Mondays off instead of Fridays, but for cultural (US) reasons, 3-day weekends with Fridays off is what seems to work best for everyone involved, including people who are working 5-day weeks alongside you.

Also note that federal holidays are often on a Monday, so having Mondays off reduces the number of holidays you have. You of course should get your 4-days/week and those holidays, so you should take an extra day off in that case, but the optics of that don't really work. (Maybe this is because those federal holidays are the minimal concession we have towards "people shouldn't work 5 days/week every week).

Re: Who will lead the charge to a four-day work week?

#109

Post by thegrim33 »

Is there any argument that can be made for a four-day work week that couldn't also be made for a three-day work week? Or a two? I guess I'm trying to get at where's the line? If everyone switches to four-day, will the next rally cry be for three-day after that? What argument is there for why four-day in particular is the "right" amount and not three or five or some other number?
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