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Beeper Mini is back

blog.beeper.com

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Re: Beeper Mini is back

#261

Post by mlindner »

afavour wrote: post #252
mlindner wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They’re highlighting the closed nature of Apple’s messaging system more effectively than anyone has in a long time. I support them in doing that. Every major chat app is closed though? For example, I use LINE regularly, there's no way to access that chat system through anything but LINE apps.

LINE doesn’t come pre installed on your phone and automatically enable when you message certain people, though.

Sure, it's strictly better... There's nothing requiring you use iMessage and you can send send SMS messages to iPhones if you choose to do so. It's a great way to secure SMS messages by default. That iMessage acts like SMS automatically is _good_ thing.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#262

Post by Nextgrid »

kernal wrote: post #184
res0nat0r wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're either going to keep getting their access cut, or sued into bankruptcy. You can't really piggyback off another companies service in violation of their TOS without things working out poorly for you IMO.

>sued into bankruptcy Good luck with that. I'd like to see this play out in court with a technically inclined judge. Be careful what you wish for.

I suspect the end-game of Beeper is to explicitly set a legal precedent or at the very least a highly publicized fight over adversarial interoperability, something no other company dared to do (because most tech companies nowadays themselves make money out of interoperability restrictions).

I assume there's some very rich benefactor behind it that is willing to fund it.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#263

Post by Nextgrid »

not_your_vase wrote: post #3

So what's the big idea? Keep playing whack-a-mole with Apple until Apple changes their TOS and sues their pants off, or until they run out of open holes? Or is there a bigger end goal?

I suspect the end-game of Beeper is to explicitly set a legal precedent or at the very least a highly publicized fight over adversarial interoperability, something no other company dared to do (because most tech companies nowadays themselves make money out of interoperability restrictions).

I assume there's some very rich benefactor behind it that is willing to fund it.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#264

Post by julesallen »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #220

Beeper has caught a ton of media attention in recent weeks but I truly do not understand it. The SMS protocol has been around for decades and works perfectly fine with iPhones. If you want rich media and other bells and whistles, use WhatsApp. How often does someone whine so loudly about insisting on using the closed, Apple-proprietary protocol that their friends need to pay a monthly subscription for a third party i…

So many reasons not to use SMS: No indicators that the message was actually received (2023 and SMS is still flaky on deliveries), no read receipts, no presence notifications, no typing notifications, no encryption in transit or rest, no escaping group chat spam... that's just the high points.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#265

Post by jwells89 »

Scarbutt wrote: post #247
jwells89 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hope that this “best case outcome” also comes with regulations to keep other giants (mostly Google) from marketing and cross-promoting their way into dominance on iOS, creating monopolies in the process. For instance, Google apps shouldn’t be able to drive Chrome installs by presenting a sheet offering to download Chrome every time I tap a link in them, as they do currently.

This happens to me constantly when I use google search in ios safari.

Chrome’s quality is what’s usually cited as being the primary driver behind its rise to its current position of most popular browser, but the reality is that Google’s intense marketing is at least as responsible. In-app prompts, prompts in Google search, and Chrome getting bundled in installers for every other Windows app were big contributors to its momentum.

Of course it becoming the default browser on the majority of Android devices and Google web apps underperforming in other browsers also played a role but that’s a bit of a different topic.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#266

Post by supermatt »

Apples response:

> These techniques posed significant risks to user security and privacy, including the potential for metadata exposure and enabling unwanted messages, spam, and phishing attacks.

Didn’t it recently come to light that apple have been “exposing” that metadata to government agencies for years? Maybe they should stop exposing metadata rather than blaming others for replicating their implementation!

How does a 3rd party implementing their API mean there will be “unwanted messages, spam and phishing attacks”? Are they accusing the 3rd party of doing that, or do they believe 3rd party software is inherently inferior to their own (which constantly needs security updates).

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#267

Post by bdcravens »

There is no doubt that Google will refund every single customer that asks (they are way more flexible about refunds than Apple - I've known people who were able to get substantial amount of IAPs from games refunded just because they didn't like the results they got). I suspect those refunds will be net negative for Beeper.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#268

Post by freedomben »

blitz_skull wrote: post #236
dimitrios1 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual best case outcome is consumers become increasingly educated on these issues and use the market to not reward Apple for these practices, rather than relying on the coercive apparatus of the state that easily falls victim to corruption and regulatory capture, until such the time where we can have an actual functioning government again that isn't strangling small businesses, close the revolving door and get m…

I don’t think relying on consumers to “not reward” anti-competitive behavior is a good strategy. I own several Apple devices primarily because the UX and ecosystem is so far beyond anything Android offers (in my opinion), that I’m simply not willing to switch. Of course, Apple’s anti-competitive behavior is a big reason for that. But I’m not willing to hurt my own daily interactions with the tech that enables my life…

I am the opposite of you, in that I refuse to buy Apple products, regardless the degraded UX I experience because of it. I will gladly suffer with a worse UX in order to vote with my $ and support vendors that align with my principles.

But I fully agree with you on this. It would be ideal for consumers to change, but it's not going to happen and it's not reasonable to expect it or demand it IMHO. If we rely on consumer behavior then things are only going to get worse and Apple more entrenched. Machiavellian behavior in business works. We have long known that individuals making microeconomic (e.g. personal) decisions can have a negative macroeconomic (e.g. big picture) effect[1]. I don't think anything will change for the better if left entirely to the market.

[1]: Tragedy of the Commons

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#269

Post by nikanj »

I wonder how far I would have to dig before I found the way Google is funding Beeper Mini. They are a sacrificial lamb, getting lead to slaughter so Google can ask EU regulators to stop Apple’s anti-competitive actions.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#270

Post by josephcsible »

upon_drumhead wrote: post #73
barnabee wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Apple given their scale and position in the market should be forced to operate and interoperate with an open standard for messaging. iMessage should no longer allowed to be proprietary and stay part of Apple.

Why stop there? Why not force every iOS app to support running on android?

Because it's possible for competitors to build replacements for the rest of the apps.
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