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Beeper Mini is back

blog.beeper.com

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Re: Beeper Mini is back

#201

Post by hamandcheese »

garysahota93 wrote: post #90
ibeckermayer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s how standard Beeper does it, or at least used to do it: https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/21/pebble-founder-launches-be...

Beeper cloud used the device as a relay mechanism. I'm suggesting the same on-Android-device implementation, but rather than randomly generating an apple device to send to Apple's registration servers, they use a device I legitimately own. No relays (so preserves security) & harder for apple to identify (because to them it'd be as if I'm just using my iPad)

I believe it is possible to use your own relay with Beeper (original Beeper, not Beeper mini).

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#202

Post by pb7 »

lacker wrote: post #148
qrohlf wrote: post #29

I’m curious what their best-case outcome is here. It’s fully transparent at this point that Apple has no appetite for a third party iMessage client on any platform and will take whatever technical steps needed to prevent this from happening. I’d wager heavily that even if Beeper plays cat-and-mouse to the point where they’ve exhausted Apple’s budget for blocking them and somehow managed to avoid Apple’s legal team pu…

The best case outcome is to get publicity leading to US and EU antitrust regulators to file a lawsuit against Apple, both of which Apple loses. The conclusion of this lawsuit is that not only must Apple allow access to iMessage, they also must allow changing the default for every component of iOS - messaging app, browser, app store, let you replace Siri with other voice assistants - and to lower the 30% app store fee…

If we’re talking best case outcomes, then why settle for 10%? 0%! Free distribution for everyone.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#203

Post by neilv »

I get why many people might want this, but open standards are the way to go, and this seems to be playing into the hands of proprietary in some ways.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#204

Post by Nextgrid »

misnome wrote: post #142
Nextgrid wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not want to have my Apple ID login routed through a third party Then don't use Beeper. > I trust an established, trillion dollar company far more with that sensitive info than I do a fast-moving, eager-to-break-things startup. And the list goes on. Thankfully, you don't necessarily have to trust them since the entire process runs on your device. > I really don't believe they're entitled to parasite off the und…

You do have to trust them - you have to trust both apple and beeper not to harvest your messages and personal/contact info. And stupid analogies help nobody. Which part of your screwdriver is costing the original manufacturer money every time you turn a screw?

> Which part of your screwdriver is costing the original manufacturer money every time you turn a screw?

The true cost is so insignificant as to not matter. The normal iOS push notification spam uses orders of magnitude more resources than whatever Beeper uses, and yet Apple doesn't seem to mind those.

The screwdriver would cost a lot to a screw company that based its business model on being the only seller of compatible screwdrivers though, and that's why Apple is mad about this and trying to break it.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#205

Post by QuercusMax »

misnome wrote: post #179
lacker wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best case outcome is to get publicity leading to US and EU antitrust regulators to file a lawsuit against Apple, both of which Apple loses. The conclusion of this lawsuit is that not only must Apple allow access to iMessage, they also must allow changing the default for every component of iOS - messaging app, browser, app store, let you replace Siri with other voice assistants - and to lower the 30% app store fee…

US? When has that ever happened in the last 30 years? I’d buy the EU stepping in to mandate interoperability though. I’d welcome that! But… shouldn’t mostly everyone here view needing the EU to force the behaviour of a US company kind of against the entire supposed benefit of the US system and the purpose of the domain this forum is hosted on?

Many of us on this site think modern hypercapitalism, the US system, and VC financing are basically evils, and are here for the general tech content. US regulators have been captured by monied interests, so rooting for the EU to do the job the US government won't is the best we can currently hope for.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#206

Post by dexwiz »

lacker wrote: post #148
qrohlf wrote: post #29

I’m curious what their best-case outcome is here. It’s fully transparent at this point that Apple has no appetite for a third party iMessage client on any platform and will take whatever technical steps needed to prevent this from happening. I’d wager heavily that even if Beeper plays cat-and-mouse to the point where they’ve exhausted Apple’s budget for blocking them and somehow managed to avoid Apple’s legal team pu…

The best case outcome is to get publicity leading to US and EU antitrust regulators to file a lawsuit against Apple, both of which Apple loses. The conclusion of this lawsuit is that not only must Apple allow access to iMessage, they also must allow changing the default for every component of iOS - messaging app, browser, app store, let you replace Siri with other voice assistants - and to lower the 30% app store fee…

Apple is THE consumer tech company in the USA. Its their darling. The only way the USA will rule against Apple is that if they are losing them money elsewhere.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#207

Post by mlindner »

haswell wrote: post #61
martinky24 wrote: post #13

These Beeper folk sound a bit entitled. As was repeatedly mentioned in the other thread [1], building production applications on top of an undocumented and unsupported (in terms of backwards compatability, etc) API is a nightmare that should be avoided. Apple has every right to change their API, if they do Beeper will go down, and Beeper will blame Apple. I understand Apple's incentives to not want to be in this situ…

If the only thing Beeper does is continue to make Apple look anti-competitive, they've succeeded as far as I'm concerned. I'm deep into the Apple ecosystem and don't see myself getting out anytime soon. But I think their stance on iMessage sucks, even while understanding the strategic reasons they're doing it. I don't see this as "leeching off an undocumented API" as much as demonstrating that iMessage is already in…

That's a strange argument... It sounds like you're making the claim that every single chat application should be mandatory legally required to have completely open APIs for any clone that wants to pop up and get access to their network.

What chat apps using a centralized server owned by a single company have open APIs that let anyone use them?

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#208

Post by petemir »

misnome wrote: post #179
lacker wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best case outcome is to get publicity leading to US and EU antitrust regulators to file a lawsuit against Apple, both of which Apple loses. The conclusion of this lawsuit is that not only must Apple allow access to iMessage, they also must allow changing the default for every component of iOS - messaging app, browser, app store, let you replace Siri with other voice assistants - and to lower the 30% app store fee…

US? When has that ever happened in the last 30 years? I’d buy the EU stepping in to mandate interoperability though. I’d welcome that! But… shouldn’t mostly everyone here view needing the EU to force the behaviour of a US company kind of against the entire supposed benefit of the US system and the purpose of the domain this forum is hosted on?

> US? When has that ever happened in the last 30 years?

United States vs. Microsoft Corp, 2001? [0]

And ongoing: United States vs. Google LLC (2020) [1] and United States vs Google LLC (2023) [2].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC_(2...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC_(2...

Edited: formatting

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#209

Post by theultdev »

rany_ wrote: post #183
qrohlf wrote: post #29

I’m curious what their best-case outcome is here. It’s fully transparent at this point that Apple has no appetite for a third party iMessage client on any platform and will take whatever technical steps needed to prevent this from happening. I’d wager heavily that even if Beeper plays cat-and-mouse to the point where they’ve exhausted Apple’s budget for blocking them and somehow managed to avoid Apple’s legal team pu…

> Apple’s next move would likely be to release some kind of official iMessage Android client rather than cede control of the space to Beeper. You say this as if it's a bad thing, I think that would be mission accomplished for Beeper... tbf, though I suppose their moment would be over by then.

Right?

For all Android users this would mean there's now an official client.

For Beeper devs this means there's less RE needed for their client.

Even if Apple released an official app, Beeper is still useful for aggregating other services, something Apple will never do.

I see noone but Beeper winning in this game barring legal skirmishes.

Re: Beeper Mini is back

#210

Post by resters »

odiroot wrote: post #171
resters wrote: post #147

Apple/Google/Microsoft/Amazon do a lot of extremely petty things that should disgust us and give us a glimpse at how this pettiness and adversarial conduct might escalate in a GAI world: - Amazon does not carry Google branded products. ([edit] they do now once again, whew!) - Search in GMail is nearly completely broken when you have too many messages, yet Google (ostensibly a search company) can't deliver good email…

> - Amazon does not carry Google branded products What do you mean? I just searched on Amazon UK and can easily buy Pixels, Home Nest etc.

Ahh they seem to have become available again. That's a step in the right direction.
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