Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ratatui

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 63 posts

Re: Ratatui

#31

Post by kragen »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #27
kragen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

compare these alternatives: - spend an hour comparing recent turbovision-like libraries. spend twenty minutes building one. spend two hours working through the tutorial. spend sixteen hours building a new application using the library. use it. get a feeling for what an application using the library written in a weekend by someone with no experience is like. (this is my understanding of the alternative you're suggesti…

Well, maybe you could spend a minute looking at the screen shots at the link and realize it works like every typical desktop app anyone has used since 1988. TV is a classic interface in every sense of the word—it isn't pushing boundaries as perhaps you are looking for.

i notice that you haven't answered any of the four questions i've asked in my previous two comments, instead telling me a lot of things i already know (and also linking tvision, which is an interesting project, thank you)

to me this seems surprisingly discourteous

what do you hope to accomplish by such an abrasive interaction style

Re: Ratatui

#32

Post by kragen »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #25
jrumbut wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The video is to display what an expert can do with it, if I understand correctly. In undergrad, I worked nights in a warehouse where most things were managed by a very complicated TUI program. The learning curve was quite steep. What someone could do after 6 months of using it was completely different to what a beginner without a trainer could do. You wouldn't be able to see what is good about it by just setting it u…

May be so, but Turbo Vision was not a unique interface paradigm. It worked just like any CUA application of the era, with dialogs and widgets, tab/funcion keys etc. Its "raison d'être."

perhaps you intend to assert that turbo vision implemented the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access standard, or made it easy for applications to do so

if so, that's news to me

Re: Ratatui

#33

Post by binary132 »

Stuff like this is cool, and I like a nice TUI, but it’s really not for everyone. It always makes me think about how I’d like GUIs to be more like the TUIs I know and love, and what a pain it seems to be for the world to converge on good, simple GUI toolkits that aren’t HMTL+JS. Please don’t say QT or GTK+....

Re: Ratatui

#34

Post by mixmastamyk »

kragen wrote: post #32
mixmastamyk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May be so, but Turbo Vision was not a unique interface paradigm. It worked just like any CUA application of the era, with dialogs and widgets, tab/funcion keys etc. Its "raison d'être."

perhaps you intend to assert that turbo vision implemented the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access standard, or made it easy for applications to do so if so, that's news to me

Yes it did to a large extent, although I think some of the function key defaults were a bit different, probably from older Borland apps.

But by and large converging on a singular CUA/MDI interface from Mac OS, Windows, IBM, Motif, QBasic, and TVision, in the late 80s.

While not everyone got there 100% it did help tremendously that one could sit at a Mac/Win/Dos PC, Unix Workstation, or IBM mainframe and understand the application level interface immediately.

We're sadly losing that as "smart" people decide to hide things from "dumb" people in terms of interface design.

Re: Ratatui

#35

Post by sshine »

Aurornis wrote: post #19
baq wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part is there's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from making the same principles work in the browser. Zero. Nada. It's trivially proven by compiling apps to wasm and running in a terminal emulator but there's nothing stopping anyone from building react-terminal-like or whatever except that... I don't even know what since we've got https://github.com/Textualize/textual-web . People have thrown out decades…

> People have thrown out decades of UX research and engineering out of the window because it isn't cool anymore. Makes me sick. Most people don’t want to browse the web with a keyboard. Traffic to many websites primarily comes from mobile devices with touchscreens. It has nothing to do with being “cool”. Terminal interfaces are great for those of us who spend a lot of time attached to the keyboard, but most people do…

> Most people don’t want to browse the web with a keyboard.

You can easily add mouse support for the equivalent of a TUI.

Unlike CLIs (and shells) which requires learning a language and memorizing, TUIs give you relevant options.

> most people don’t operate like that

I'm convinced that if more UIs were simpler state machines, computers would be easier to use for non-programmers.

Re: Ratatui

#36

Post by arcanemachiner »

binary132 wrote: post #33

Stuff like this is cool, and I like a nice TUI, but it’s really not for everyone. It always makes me think about how I’d like GUIs to be more like the TUIs I know and love, and what a pain it seems to be for the world to converge on good, simple GUI toolkits that aren’t HMTL+JS. Please don’t say QT or GTK+....

Best I can do is Flutter :/

Re: Ratatui

#37

Post by zozbot234 »

Aurornis wrote: post #19
baq wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part is there's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from making the same principles work in the browser. Zero. Nada. It's trivially proven by compiling apps to wasm and running in a terminal emulator but there's nothing stopping anyone from building react-terminal-like or whatever except that... I don't even know what since we've got https://github.com/Textualize/textual-web . People have thrown out decades…

> People have thrown out decades of UX research and engineering out of the window because it isn't cool anymore. Makes me sick. Most people don’t want to browse the web with a keyboard. Traffic to many websites primarily comes from mobile devices with touchscreens. It has nothing to do with being “cool”. Terminal interfaces are great for those of us who spend a lot of time attached to the keyboard, but most people do…

> Most people don't want to browse the web with a keyboard.

Site-specific keyboard shortcuts are a thing, they're important for accessibility. Unfortunately most sites either don't support them or do a poor job of documenting that support in a way that can be surfaced by users.

Re: Ratatui

#38

Post by zozbot234 »

binary132 wrote: post #33

Stuff like this is cool, and I like a nice TUI, but it’s really not for everyone. It always makes me think about how I’d like GUIs to be more like the TUIs I know and love, and what a pain it seems to be for the world to converge on good, simple GUI toolkits that aren’t HMTL+JS. Please don’t say QT or GTK+....

TUI's are closer to the HTML+JS paradigm than most GUI's are. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, especially when styled via CSS.

Re: Ratatui

#39

Post by mixmastamyk »

kragen wrote: post #31
mixmastamyk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe you could spend a minute looking at the screen shots at the link and realize it works like every typical desktop app anyone has used since 1988. TV is a classic interface in every sense of the word—it isn't pushing boundaries as perhaps you are looking for.

i notice that you haven't answered any of the four questions i've asked in my previous two comments, instead telling me a lot of things i already know (and also linking tvision, which is an interesting project, thank you) to me this seems surprisingly discourteous what do you hope to accomplish by such an abrasive interaction style

I see no question marks outside of the first post asking for a video. You also implied looking at TV would take an hour or more, which yes was mildly annoying.

Though I see the grandparent of this post reads more passive-aggressive than I was intending when I wrote it.

Re: Ratatui

#40

Post by qudat »

neverrroot wrote: post #15

I love TUI. Nothing beats its clean UI, focus, speed and the resulting productivity. Learn a few shortcuts and fly. We need more TUI apps.

I built https://prose.sh off of Charm and while it was a lot of fun, nothing beats what you can build in the browser.

Having said that, SSH apps are very ergonomic for the demo on this site. We have been able to build a lot of cool features on top of SSH and Charm.

We are working on a static hosting site that provides a zero install CLI. It’s sick and everyone is going to want to use it. https://pgs.sh

Post reply on HN