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Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

nytimes.com

161–170 of 362 posts

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#161
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ACT test scores have plummeted too. Combined with what we know about the physical brain changes that can be observed after a single mild infection, it all paints a potentially concerning relationship with COVID.

Or maybe ACT test scores have plummeted because these students have experienced 1-2 years of remote teaching, which might have been less effective than in-person school?

[flagged]

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#162

Do pilots have any tools detect conflicting runway use? Like, I would imagine light patterns would mark a runway as take-off, landing, or neither (plane crossing, etc). A pilot told to land on a runway not lit for landing would know something's wrong, and planes would know not to line up on a runway lit for landing, etc.

Over the summer a near miss happened in Austin and I looked into this a bit. It seems that some airports do have lights that change in real-time, but not all. Austin does not have the system.

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#163

Car accidents are up as well, less so this year than last. Both Air traffic and Car accidents have been up since 2020. Its not unique to Air traffic control. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyamohn/2023/09/28/road-crash... Its also happening worldwide, more air traffic near misses in the EU alongside road accidents as well. I suspect its world wide.

I followed road traffic safety since 2020 closely (and have submitted and posted about it here) and traffic fatalities is slowly coming down since 2020. My hypothesis about it was that the empty roads in 2020 caused drivers to degenerate in terms of road manners. For example, deaths per mile actually increased in 2020 despite people driving fewer miles which suggests people drove less safely. On the other hand this a…

My pet theory has been that extended lockdowns caused regressions in people’s ability to drive safety, whether it was the actual skills to operate a vehicle, or people’s risk assessment skills.

Operating a vehicle is a skill like any other, and if you’re not performing reps you’ll regress like any other activity. Empty roads might even permit crappier driving.

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#164
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding this thread, I really want to caution on the desire to automatically assign worse car crash rates to covid-19 infections, or any other specific cause. Car crashes and ATC mistakes are two different sets of data. Just because they are going up or down at the same time and you can overlay some other event on top of it means absolutely nothing on its own. There are a lot more reasons that car crash rates can b…

> Car crashes and ATC mistakes are two different sets of data. Just because they are going up or down at the same time and you can overlay some other event on top of it means absolutely nothing on its own. A good time to dust off this classic: https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

Also https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pirate_Global_Warmin...

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#165

Air traffic control seems like something that should be at the top level surveyed by humans but has many layers of automated computational safety built in. I imagine there is, but the idea that the safety of a plane is up to a single person at some point is unsettling. Having existed for many decades, the entire field should be far past the point of there being even a 0.000000001% chance of hazard.

The US Navy presumably has a near unlimited budget and aircraft carriers are still very analog in this regard. There have been some attempts to make the ouija board digital, but still have it be manually updated.

https://coffeeordie.com/ouija-boards-aircraft-carriers

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#167
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per that chart, flying is about 3x as deadly per journey as a car. Many people take a car to and from the airport, which means it nearly nets out already.

What do you mean, it nets out? Shouldn't the car trips from/to the airport mean that an airplane journey is even more dangerous, as you can't really fly without those additional car trips?

>can't really fly without those additional car trips

Hm, i almost never take a car to the airport.

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#168
post #81

Car accidents are up as well, less so this year than last. Both Air traffic and Car accidents have been up since 2020. Its not unique to Air traffic control. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyamohn/2023/09/28/road-crash... Its also happening worldwide, more air traffic near misses in the EU alongside road accidents as well. I suspect its world wide.

> Traffic fatalities declined for the fifth straight quarter. About 19,515 people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes in 2023, a decrease of about 3.3% compared to 20,190 fatalities in the first half of 2022. I don't see much correspondence with: > In the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, there were 503 air traffic control lapses that the F.A.A. preliminarily categorized as “significant,” 65 percent more than in the…

Traffic fatalities decrease because cars are getting safer.

But the number or accidents per capita might not be. Pedestrian deaths have certainly been on the rise.

https://www.ghsa.org/sites/default/files/publications/files/...

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#169

Car accidents are up as well, less so this year than last. Both Air traffic and Car accidents have been up since 2020. Its not unique to Air traffic control. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyamohn/2023/09/28/road-crash... Its also happening worldwide, more air traffic near misses in the EU alongside road accidents as well. I suspect its world wide.

> Car accidents are up as well, less so this year than last. Both Air traffic and Car accidents have been up since 2020. Its not unique to Air traffic control.

What's the connection between car accidents and ATC incidents that would make one a sensible comparator for the other? They aren't caused by the same things, unless the extra car accidents are all occurring in intersections where someone is directing traffic.

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#170

Very scary indeed. I think for the first time in my life I will be a little on edge flying in the US. You always hear that flying is the safest mode of public transport--well, if this is the state of the ATC, we're definitely in trouble. And you know there won't be any real change until hundreds of people die needlessly...I just hope it won't be my flight.

It's the safest per mile, but not per journey. A nice comparison to other transport methods, including taking the bus, and the Space Shuttle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety#Transport_comp...

There are so many disclaimers after that table that I feel that citing it as a "nice comparison to other transport methods" is absurdly simplistic and disingenuous. Especially since a sibling comment says "It is utterly fascinating to me that technically walking is just as safe as a car on a journey by journey basis."
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