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Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

nytimes.com

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Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#81

Post by verteu »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #29

Car accidents are up as well, less so this year than last. Both Air traffic and Car accidents have been up since 2020. Its not unique to Air traffic control. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyamohn/2023/09/28/road-crash... Its also happening worldwide, more air traffic near misses in the EU alongside road accidents as well. I suspect its world wide.

> Traffic fatalities declined for the fifth straight quarter. About 19,515 people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes in 2023, a decrease of about 3.3% compared to 20,190 fatalities in the first half of 2022.

I don't see much correspondence with:

> In the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, there were 503 air traffic control lapses that the F.A.A. preliminarily categorized as “significant,” 65 percent more than in the prior year, according to internal agency reports reviewed by The Times. During that period, air traffic increased about 4 percent.

Especially since the NYT blames the latter on "A nationwide staffing shortage — caused by years of employee turnover and tight budgets, among other factors — has forced many controllers to work six-day weeks and 10-hour days."

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#82

Post by syndicatedjelly »

gred wrote: post #56
dghlsakjg wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the part about 10 hour days and 6 day workweeks? I wouldn't do that for $132k. Add in the fact that the FAA is about 50 years behind the times in understanding mental health, so you might lose your entire career if you are diagnosed with depression (even if it is a result of stress at work). Plus, you have to be younger than 31 to start an ATC career, and are required to retire no later than 56. So for g…

$132k is great pay. You get to retire at 56 with a nice federal retirement package, plus an extra supplement to top things up until you are eligible for social security (which you're not initially, since you get to retire so damn early). Is it a hard job? Certainly. But I'm sure a significant number of retail jobs are nearly as stressful. And the union has your back, making sure you get a decent number of decently-si…

> But I'm sure a significant number of retail jobs are nearly as stressful.

Ok you lost me there. Which part of retail work has you responsible for the lives of 200 people at a time?

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#84

Post by sparcpile »

anonymousiam wrote: post #83
consumer451 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I make no claim about the accuracy of the reporting below Then you appear to knowingly spreading unfounded rumors?

Perhaps, but I did review the material before I posted it. Did you?

Blaming DEI is a dog-whistle for 'people should know their place' The Free Beacon, Fox News, and the other last four you listed are in the business of telling old white people to be afraid of everything.

It's the same as denying someone a job because they are not culture fit for a company. It's because the people doing the hiring only want to hire people from their background, college, etc.

The safety issues and staffing levels have been an issue since Reagan fired the PATCO ATC workers. It's getting worse because traffic loads are increasing and it is getting harder to staff for a stressful safety-critical job.

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#85

Post by Buttons840 »

Do pilots have any tools detect conflicting runway use?

Like, I would imagine light patterns would mark a runway as take-off, landing, or neither (plane crossing, etc). A pilot told to land on a runway not lit for landing would know something's wrong, and planes would know not to line up on a runway lit for landing, etc.

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#86

Post by atleastoptimal »

syndicatedjelly wrote: post #79
ytdytvhxgydvhh wrote: post #47

What do we think, within 5 years pilots will be talking to AI chatbots that handle air traffic?

Of all the things to use an AI chatbot for, this might be the worst one.

That's assuming AI still stay as it is forever. In 3-5 years every job that can be done on a computer will be able to be done better by an AI designed for that job. The only issue will be adoption, not the tech itself.

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#90

Post by atleastoptimal »

sparcpile wrote: post #84
anonymousiam wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but I did review the material before I posted it. Did you?

Blaming DEI is a dog-whistle for 'people should know their place' The Free Beacon, Fox News, and the other last four you listed are in the business of telling old white people to be afraid of everything. It's the same as denying someone a job because they are not culture fit for a company. It's because the people doing the hiring only want to hire people from their background, college, etc. The safety issues and staf…

Air traffic is up this year only 4%, would that naturally correspond to a 65% increase in significant incidents?

The issue isn't whether or not people are tacitly insisting certain people "deserve" to be in certain positions due to their race/background, and those against DEI are lamenting the loss of the soft apartheid we had in the US that gradually eroded with the civil rights movement. The issue is: in chasing demographic targets, are jobs lowering their standards for employment, and are those lowered standards causing a hazard for those impacted by the performance of those who work those jobs?

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