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Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

nytimes.com

41–50 of 362 posts

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#41
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the safest per mile, but not per journey. A nice comparison to other transport methods, including taking the bus, and the Space Shuttle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety#Transport_comp...

It is utterly fascinating to me that technically walking is just as safe as a car on a journey by journey basis. I definitely didn't need to know the danger per journey for flights though. I liked the lie I had before

Per that chart, flying is about 3x as deadly per journey as a car. Many people take a car to and from the airport, which means it nearly nets out already.

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#42
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- ATC is a difficult job both in terms of training required and day-to-day work - There are high health requirements to hold the job, which should be revisited - The federally mandated retirement age is relatively low. - Pay is not attractive - Overall FAA funding is largely set by the finicky Congress, which swings between extreme austerity and moderate fiscal pragmatism - Airports can supplement federal funding, bu…

> Pay is not attractive That's not my impression at all, based on discussions with FAA employees. From a quick online search: > ATC 2022 median pay: $132,250 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/a...

Did you read the part about 10 hour days and 6 day workweeks? I wouldn't do that for $132k.

Add in the fact that the FAA is about 50 years behind the times in understanding mental health, so you might lose your entire career if you are diagnosed with depression (even if it is a result of stress at work).

Plus, you have to be younger than 31 to start an ATC career, and are required to retire no later than 56. So for good, not great, pay: you have to pick your career before the age of 31. Pass rigorous training. Have a plan for starting a new career if you ever have health issues, or when you turn 56, whichever comes sooner.

In a vacuum, the pay is attractive. In context, it doesn't seem much more than "above average", at best, for a VERY hard job.

In any case, the proof is in the pudding. If people thought the pay was generous and worth it, would there be a shortage?

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#43
post #41
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is utterly fascinating to me that technically walking is just as safe as a car on a journey by journey basis. I definitely didn't need to know the danger per journey for flights though. I liked the lie I had before

Per that chart, flying is about 3x as deadly per journey as a car. Many people take a car to and from the airport, which means it nearly nets out already.

What do you mean, it nets out?

Shouldn't the car trips from/to the airport mean that an airplane journey is even more dangerous, as you can't really fly without those additional car trips?

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#46

Car accidents are up as well, less so this year than last. Both Air traffic and Car accidents have been up since 2020. Its not unique to Air traffic control. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyamohn/2023/09/28/road-crash... Its also happening worldwide, more air traffic near misses in the EU alongside road accidents as well. I suspect its world wide.

I don't really see how that's related though

ACT test scores have plummeted too. Combined with what we know about the physical brain changes that can be observed after a single mild infection, it all paints a potentially concerning relationship with COVID.

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#49
post #4

FWIW Obama’s administration instituted a diversity program for ATC that gave points to people that did poorly in school and haven’t had a job recently and penalized people with pilots licenses or military ATC experience and other qualifications. The ATC was considered “too white”. In essence they worked backwards to figure out how to hit their arbitrary diversity targets without considering the lives of everyone that…

This would be very interesting to look into if you cited a source.

Here's an academic publication from 2018, but it doesn't seem to make any explicit claims about diversity related reasons for the changes in the hiring process:

>The hiring process for aspiring federal air traffic controllers from approved Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) institutions has undergone several revisions in recent years. Prior to 2014, graduates from AT-CTI programs were given preferential hiring from the FAA. In 2014, the FAA announced that AT-CTI graduates would equally compete with thousands of people the FAA calls “off the street hires”--anyone can literally walk in off the street without any previous training and apply for a federal air traffic control job. To apply, the FAA requires that a candidate has United States (U.S.) citizenship, a high school diploma, speaks English, and passes the FAA’s new Biographical Questionnaire (BQ).

>Another concerning perspective from AT-CTI administrators is that CTI graduates are at an employment disadvantage with the new hiring initiatives. One of the responding administrators expressed concern that off the street applicants have increased odds of employment over CTI applicants because CTI students are combined in track one with Veteran’s Readjustment Appointment (VRA) applicants putting CTI students second while all off the street applicants are grouped as one and have an equal opportunity for selection.

>The new FAA hiring protocol for federal air traffic controllers that was implemented in February 2014 included several significant changes. In particular, the FAA reduced the role of the CTI-approved program; therefore, the only remaining advantage for CTI graduates is that they are eligible to bypass the Air Traffic Basics Course, which is the first five weeks of qualification training at the FAA Academy in Oklahoma City (FAA, 2018). In addition, the FAA introduced the Biographical Questionnaire which was envisioned to predict controller performance through a process of asking individuals to recall their typical and/or specific behaviors from earlier times in their lives. But due to the lengthy process of hiring and training an air traffic controller which can take several years, it is too soon to conclude whether the FAA’s new hiring policies improved the ability to hire individuals who are more likely to successfully become federal controllers (FAA, 2017b).

https://ojs.library.okstate.edu/osu/index.php/CARI/article/v...

Re: Air traffic controllers pushed to the brink

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that this is getting downvoted. What you posted is a fact and it should be addressed. We shouldn't bury our heads in the sand just because it's an issue of race.

I think if it were a fact, it would be supported by argument and evidence. What we have here is simply a claim, which was not supported by any evidence. I am perfectly willing to accept that poorly thought out diversity policies can have adverse effects on organizations, which is especially troubling if that organization manages vital infrastructure. But I would need to see good evidence, and argument with that evide…

So if you don't agree with a claim, instead of asking for evidence you flag and terminate the discussion? This is what happened here.
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