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Make Apps for Linux

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Re: Make Apps for Linux

#181

Post by zer0zzz »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #167
zer0zzz wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, so I can only tell you as much as I know and understand. Some of this pulls in some outdated information too. So, JVMs and languages that abstract the underlying machine are always going to have overhead. The original interpreted stack-based JVM model is really bad for performance because you can't do great optimizations on the code because you can't have a great view of the operands that are being defined and…

> The original interpreted stack-based JVM model is really bad for performance And we addressed that today by launching a copy of Chrome with every app?

yes

I think it's hard to beat the tide that is the web as a content and app delivery system. The web is also getting all the billions in investment from every massive faang.

Re: Make Apps for Linux

#182

Post by danans »

zb3 wrote: post #71
danans wrote: post #52

> Target All The Linux Distributions If you are going through the trouble of targeting all Linux distributions , why not just target all platforms by using a framework like Flutter or React?

I hope nobody will take your comment seriously, because the performance of these is horrible compared to "truly" native apps

I've seen few apps anymore whose performance is bounded it by the choice of UI framework.

If they're slow, it's usually because of design choices, like making common user interactions wait to retrieve data.

Yes, games are an exception. But for the majority of software that is concerned with displaying text, it doesn't matter a hill of beans if you use a cross platform framework. We're far past the days of slow Java AWT apps.

Re: Make Apps for Linux

#183

Post by IshKebab »

worksonmine wrote: post #88
IshKebab wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utter nonsense. The CLI lets you do complex custom things that you sometimes can't do with a GUI. But it is pretty awful from a UX point of view. Terrible discoverability, terrible UI, very unfriendly, no contextual help, etc. etc. I can't think of a worse interface from a UX perspective.

The manual exists for a reason. I find it much easier to type `man program` then `/whatever` until I find what I'm looking for rather than scanning the screen for the correct icon. There are also some conventions and after a while you get to a point where it's intuitive to use any new program. Just like with a GUI and icons, what does the wand do?

"You just have to read the manual" and "you get used to it" are basically synonyms for "the UX is bad".

1 second of googling: https://fstoppers.com/opinion/stop-telling-people-read-manua...

I'm sure there are better articles if you search more. If you have time for a book, I highly recommend "The design of everyday things". If you don't agree with me that book will change your mind.

Re: Make Apps for Linux

#184

Post by nektro »

alwayslikethis wrote: post #39
blt wrote: post #28

It's not an attractive scene for GUI developers on Linux. Gnome, Qt, and Electron all have some unappealing aspects. Many people who get the itch to make a Linux GUI app will immediately be discouraged by having to choose between them.

What's wrong with Qt? It works well enough if you want to write C++ or Python. Electron works on Linux the same way it does on Windows. GTK has some more issues on other platforms, but mostly works on Linux too.

> What's wrong with Qt? It works well enough if you want to write C++ or Python.

answered your own question

Re: Make Apps for Linux

#185

Post by zer0zzz »

smoldesu wrote: post #157
zer0zzz wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a long enough time scale we are all dead, and Linux doesn't exist. That doesn't mean that in the decades that computer software has to be useful to actual people that things have to suck this badly right now.

The "actual people" using Linux on the desktop are not running .so files off the internet. I get what you're saying, but you know it's facetious to pretend that packaging is simple on Mac and Windows too.

> The "actual people" using Linux on the desktop are not running .so files off the internet.

They do this all day every day when they use a little something called Steam or when they install Google Chrome.

> I get what you're saying, but you know it's facetious to pretend that packaging is simple on Mac and Windows too.

It is...

Re: Make Apps for Linux

#186

Post by zer0zzz »

api wrote: post #160
smoldesu wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "actual people" using Linux on the desktop are not running .so files off the internet. I get what you're saying, but you know it's facetious to pretend that packaging is simple on Mac and Windows too.

Packaging is fairly simple on Mac and Windows if you use the dev tools for the platform and are not doing things like installing services or drivers or changing OS configuration. Your packaged app will almost always work too. There are not 50 distributions of these OSes.

exactly

Re: Make Apps for Linux

#187

Post by whartung »

creesch wrote: post #158
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hold on mate, isn't that what Java was supposed to solve. I remember before the days of electron when I was a wee lad in the 2000s, all cross platforms apps were Java. Look at Ghidra, it's a Java app for Windows, Linux and Mac. The "holy trinity" of operating systems, covered with one language and framework. So what happened? Did devs forgot Java exists and felt like reinventing the wheel but worse this time?

Java simply has a much higher barrier of entry. Not only in regards to figuring out the language and resources available but also the fact that creating a GUI still requires external dependencies. Electron isn't just cross platform, it is cross platform based on technologies (html, css and javascript) that also by a huge margin have the largest amount of developers available.

  > Not only in regards to figuring out the language and resources available but also the fact that creating a GUI still requires external dependencies.
What external dependencies does Java need that's not in the JDK itself? I have an app with Mac and Windows installers (and thus bundles JDKs), it also runs on Linux (via a fat jar), I tested it on Ubuntu, but for the life of me I couldn't figure out how to package it properly. It was more complicated that I cared to invest it at the time.

As for the barrier to entry, I feel the same way about the web. I find the JS and Web ecosystem to be utterly overwhelming, one reason I stuck with Java over something like Electron, and the installers/footprint of the app are smaller to boot.

Re: Make Apps for Linux

#188

Post by zlg_codes »

deafpolygon wrote: post #12

This is one of the biggest issues holding the Linux platform as a whole. It's often cited as a strength, but I don't see it as such. Many times, the plethora of choice is pushed forward by devs as an advantage of Linux ("you have so many choices to pick from!") but for many users this presents the paradox of choice - and pushes many people back to the platform they came from. You get less choice on macOS and Windows,…

This is a problem that is meant to be solved by distros. People who don't want many choices should be using a distro that makes a bunch of choices for them, instead of pushing to remove choice from the ecosysytem altogether.

Everybody using the same software creates a monoculture which is more prone to attack than a diverse ecosystem. There's a reason Windows was targeted so much by viruses: not only was the target BIG, but it was also consistent. If you broke into one normie's Windows machine, you could probably break into the rest. You're going to have a harder time of that if you target Linux.

Also, it's libre software. Unless you pay someone to do something for you, most of it is volunteer activity. And who are we to tell someone what they should do with their volunteer time?

It's also an indictment of the dominant social structures if there are all these groups and nobody wants to join them. They could start by getting rid of Codes of Conduct that give them permission to punish you for out-of-project behavior. Try that.

Re: Make Apps for Linux

#190

Post by charcircuit »

zer0zzz wrote: post #135
fragmede wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome/Chromium is quite standardized, across many distros.

Name one distro that ships with chrome out of the box? I dont even think ubuntu comes with a chromium browser. That means devs cant write apps against it and just hand out exes like they do on Mac and windows.

Play Protect Certified Android and ChromeOS are popular ones among consumers
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