Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

english.elpais.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 165 posts

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#31

Post by Xeoncross »

joshuamcginnis wrote: post #23
Xeoncross wrote: post #6

The growth of fines, licenses and taxes in the USA is substantial over the last 100 years. Very few things do not require fees these days (even visiting public lands).

True and so too have the expectations of services from the public.

Only a small portion of the total federal and state budgets go towards education, infrastructure (roads, transit and parks), and healthcare.

There is plenty in the budget for public services, we don't use it for that though which is why we add new fines.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#32

Post by JKCalhoun »

Xeoncross wrote: post #6

The growth of fines, licenses and taxes in the USA is substantial over the last 100 years. Very few things do not require fees these days (even visiting public lands).

It seems we have dialed down corporate taxes and taxes on the extremely wealthy. In their place (because these things don't pay for themselves) we have shifted the tax burden elsewhere.

If I don't go to National Parks why should my taxes pay for them? Make the visitors pay to enter.

Seems to be where we are these days.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#33

Post by haswell »

tiffanyh wrote: post #20

> ’The city will charge $15 to passenger cars that enter the central strip of Manhattan, $24 to vans and $36 to buses and large trucks.’ Shouldn’t they charge progressive less the higher the occupancy is of the vehicle. This pricing seems backwards to me.

That depends on what they’re trying to address.

If the issue is primarily the presence of the vehicles themselves, it makes sense that larger vehicles take more space and cause more congestion.

If “congestion” also factors in pedestrians, then those larger vehicles are increasing congestion at a higher rate than smaller vehicles, both in terms of space taken by the vehicle, and number of humans entering the area.

I get what you’re saying, but I think there are a number of ways to make it make sense depending on what behavior they’re trying to alter.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#34

Post by alexchamberlain »

gafage wrote: post #19
alexchamberlain wrote: post #9

In London, we have a inner congestion zone, which is surrounded by a ultra low emission zone. The low emission zone only requires your car to be a few years old, though it has a bigger impact on vans and lorries.

Low emission zones should be called instead "no poor people zones" which is what in practice they are.

That's not my experience in London tbh; you can get away with a 7 year old diesel car, for example. Also, this is being done where the public transport is second to none, so everyone has an option for local transport 20 hours or so a day.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#36

Post by lwansbrough »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #25
thisgoesnowhere wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your alternative?

My alternative are things that, unfortunately, would never fly politically: 1) Regulate urban business density in coastal cities and cities more generally limited by water. 2) More multi-core metropolises where the highest density is either spread out entirely, or spread to multiple districts sufficiently far away from each other. Edit: The comment by hamandcheese showed I had forgotten this important modifier for po…

Urban sprawl is perhaps the most environmentally devastating behaviour that humans do.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#37

Post by morsch »

gafage wrote: post #19
alexchamberlain wrote: post #9

In London, we have a inner congestion zone, which is surrounded by a ultra low emission zone. The low emission zone only requires your car to be a few years old, though it has a bigger impact on vans and lorries.

Low emission zones should be called instead "no poor people zones" which is what in practice they are.

For the record, here are the requirements: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/car...

Minimum emissions standards

Petrol: Euro 4 (NOx)

Diesel: Euro 6 (NOx and PM)

Petrol cars that meet the ULEZ standards are generally those first registered as new with the DVLA after 2005, although cars that meet the standards have been available since 2001

Diesel cars that meet the standards are generally those first registered with the DVLA as new after September 2015

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#38

Post by sixo »

alexchamberlain wrote: post #34
gafage wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low emission zones should be called instead "no poor people zones" which is what in practice they are.

That's not my experience in London tbh; you can get away with a 7 year old diesel car, for example. Also, this is being done where the public transport is second to none, so everyone has an option for local transport 20 hours or so a day.

It puts a cost on flexibility, optionality, that kind of thing, which tend to increase dramatically with wealth.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#39

Post by shipscode »

addicted wrote: post #17
shipscode wrote: post #3

This idiocy will only hurt the working class employees who drive in from the outerboros.

1. The overwhelming majority of outerboro working class people are not driving in NYC. Only about 30% of NYCers even own cars. 2. This only impacts a small part of Manhattan and for certain hours in the day. The only thing it does is encourages those who can move their travel away from peak hours to do so. This will greatly help all the people driving in as well. 3. This will greatly save many lives through reduced p…

1. Numbers are close enough to correct

2. This is no longer true, the plan is tolling individuals driving into that area 24 hours a day, and from 5AM-9PM at the full rate.

5. Just because Manhattan has public transit doesn’t mean they’re coming from a neighborhood with accessible public transit. Converting a short drive into a 2 hour each way trip is wrong no matter how poor the person.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#40

Post by cgriswald »

tiffanyh wrote: post #20

> ’The city will charge $15 to passenger cars that enter the central strip of Manhattan, $24 to vans and $36 to buses and large trucks.’ Shouldn’t they charge progressive less the higher the occupancy is of the vehicle. This pricing seems backwards to me.

If you want to maximize passengers per 'vehicle space' this is the pricing you use. While the van costs more, the per-passenger price is less at capacity. The only other option is to charge based on actual passenger count (with the price being lower per-passenger as you have more passengers).

If they were to charge less for larger vehicles, people would buy larger vehicles just for carting themselves around regardless of number of passengers, which would increase overall congestion.

Post reply on HN