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Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#891

Post by hamandcheese »

sircastor wrote: post #490
ancientworldnow wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except they charge a thousand dollars to enter and then let everyone else in for free but they have to wear a badge and the pictures they get from the roller coaster photo booth are 240p.

And no one is obligated to come to the Theme park. There's an entire world of people who never visit the theme park, mock the people who do, and couldn't care less about it. But some people want to be included as going to the park, when they don't. Some people are very judgy and don't want to talk to people who don't go to the park... Okay, I've stretched the metaphor out enough.

Almost 60% of America is in the theme park.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#892

Post by danShumway »

al_borland wrote: post #883
eptcyka wrote: post #863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is using another client undermining the security of the whole system?

The system wasn't designed with those 3rd party clients, and security around them, in mind. Beeper Mini is spoofing/reusing device IDs, pretending to be some random person's Mac, for example. True support for 3rd party clients wouldn't not require this kind of thing. From what I understand Beeper Mini is interfacing with iMessage on-device, what's to stop another clients from using a server and intercepting messages?…

> The system wasn't designed with those 3rd party clients, and security around them, in mind.

It sure as heck better have been designed with that in mind, because it sends SMS messages to uncontrolled 3rd party clients that could be stealing your information or spying on push notifications every single time you message an Android user.

I genuinely don't understand this argument. Do people think that SMS messages don't generate push notifications? Does Apple have a 1st-party SMS messenger available on Android that I'm not aware of? You're already communicating with 3rd-party clients that could be spying on you, and you're already receiving messages from those clients in the iMessage app. The biggest difference is that your messages with those clients today are fully unencrypted, so spying on them doesn't even require compromising an app.

It's weird for people to be so concerned about push notifications as if that's a decrease in security when the alternative system they're proposing is for iOS messages to be sent to Android devices fully unencrypted. Apple/Google can share all of that information with the government as well; if they're not being asked to it's only because the government can get it even more easily directly from the telcos.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#893

Post by danShumway »

ceejayoz wrote: post #889
jvolkman wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the existence of a working unsanctioned client undermines the integrity of a system as prominent and security- and privacy-focused as iMessage proclaims to be, then that system has big problems. Certainly this is not the first time some entity in the world has reverse-engineered iMessage; it's just the first time that it was publicized.

Every system has holes that get discovered in time. Leaving those holes open is a different thing.

This is also notable, because the technology that Beeper Mini is based on was public and available to potential attackers before Beeper Mini launched. Beeper didn't invent this, they contracted the developer and based the project off of their open Github repository.

Apple did leave the hole open; they left it open until it threatened their customer lock-in. Only at that point did they decide that it was a security risk.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#894

Post by AlexandrB »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #343
pjz wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides the obvious attention play, he might be going for an acquisition play... "Why bother writing our own iMessage for Android when we can just buy this little company that's already done it?" There's obvious issues with that plan, but that doesn't keep delusional founders from being delusional.

Apple chose not to support Android on purpose. They know iMessage exclusivity drives hardware sales. The emails have come out proving as much. It's the same reason they dragged their feet supporting RCS, until regulatory pressure started mounting.

> They know iMessage exclusivity drives hardware sales. The emails have come out proving as much.

I find this incredibly hard to believe. And just because the Apple marketing department believes something is true, doesn't make it so.

Maybe I run in a weird crowd, but I've never met anyone who cares whether "text messages" are delivered over SMS or iMessage. In general most messaging I do happens over Signal, WhatsApp, Discord, or (in a few unfortunate cases) Instagram messenger.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#895

Post by johnbellone »

sbuk wrote: post #329
johnbellone wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every person I interact with in the EU uses iMessage. Let’s avoid making sweeping generalizations.

That's a pretty sweeping generalisation on it's own. You personally interacting via iMessage with people in the EU has absolutely no bearing on this. When people say that 'no-one' uses iMessage, they are really saying saying that it's a very small percentage. It's like saying 'no-one uses Yahoo! mail' - relative to GMail and Outlook.com, it's use is vanisingly small these days, but I guaruntee that there is a not-ins…

It’s an anecdote just like yours.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#896

Post by paulmd »

Nullabillity wrote: post #578
paulmd wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also at severe risk of ruining the fun for numerous other hacker-spirit communities like hackintosh or opencore. Apple can come down on this in ways that potentially make it much more difficult for hackintosh to operate, or for people to update their legitimate apple systems after the end of official support. Which was pointed out in those threads too. See also geohot taking some other PS3 exploits that were alr…

The only people ruining anything for anyone in your examples are Apple and Sony.

Nah, assholes ruining access to the beach is a very real phenomenon

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#897

Post by dzikimarian »

nurettin wrote: post #793
dzikimarian wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Hacker spirit is owning your machine to its full extent. For fun, for profit or just for mayhem. Apple using instant messaging, where no meaningful innovation happened for decades to build their moat is pathetic and disgusting.

> Hacker spirit is owning your machine to its full extent. I thought it was about owning anyone's machine to the full extent. Did this change during the past 30 years?

Well 30 years ago owning your machine could be taken for granted. Today - not necessarily.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#898

Post by georgyo »

prmoustache wrote: post #423
haswell wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An android user in an otherwise iMessage only group chat tends to mess things up. Those Apple users tend to get frustrated by it and group chat exclusion is a real thing. It’s less about a specific feature set and more about inclusion and acceptance from/by peers. This is especially prevalent among the younger crowd. Think high school group dynamics playing out with phones. And then on top of that, photos/videos are…

Are these iMessage group chat really a thing? In my part of the world Whatsapp is the defacto standard for group chat and even for things like scheduling anpointment to a doctor/dentist/hairdresser. And that is because it is available on android, apple devices and even those cheap kaios halfsmartphones.

My daughter's parents group is all iMessage. The group is too large to even downgrade to SMS. I am excluded entirely unless I figure out methods to get into that group.

It is very annoying and quite real.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#899

Post by azubinski »

im_thatoneguy wrote: post #310
StressedDev wrote: post #143

One thing which is really confusing is why are Android users obsessed with iMessage? Android users can send text messages to iPhones, the can call iPhone users, and they can use third party messaging apps to communicate with iPhone users. It really isn’t clear to me why so many people are so angry they cannot use iMessage on Android.

Because iMessage users won't let you join iMessage group chats. They don't want to lose features. So your choice is to just not be friends anymore or have an iphone device. I have an ipad just to chat with people who refuse to use anything other than imessage. I don't want anything to do with iMessage, but I have to.

This is the first time I've heard that people who put features above friendship are called friends.

Well, the time has come.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#900

Post by massel »

yurishimo wrote: post #766
m3kw9 wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need for transparency here. Just know that no one has broken the encryption is all you need. Also you likely will not know if beeper sends a copy of your messages to their servers to sell, but who would you trust more won’t sell your info, beeper or Apple?

Beeper was acquired by Automattic about a month ago.

That was texts.com, not Beeper
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