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Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

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Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#821
post #769

Where is the hacker spirit here? The number of Apple apologists that have crawled out to say "see? I told you so!!" is saddening. It is a bit dicey when you're charging for it, but since Mini was entirely client-side it would be feasible for a free version to exist. Apple claims iMessage is E2EE, do we have proof they aren't siphoning the messages from the client once it's been decrypted? The level of trust we have t…

> Where is the hacker spirit here? I'm torn on this. Is it following the hacker spirit to get more people plugged into Apple's closed ecosystem? Maybe? Maybe not? Reverse engineering a proprietary protocol is certainly hacker-y. But building a business around that -- essentially charging people to put more load onto someone else's infrastructure, who have to bear the costs (even a rich behemoth like Apple) -- I'm not…

> Is it following the hacker spirit to get more people plugged into Apple's closed ecosystem?

Yes — it's adversarial interoperability, and that is always a good thing because it breaks lock-ins. Though mostly irrelevant to this particular case, adversarial interoperability also forces the service owner to compete with third-party clients which always put the user first; it removes the service owner's of control over the UX and presentation.

I don't know about AIM, but ICQ also used OSCAR protocol. The official ICQ clients were bloated, shitty and full of ads. Not many people used them. Most people used QIP, Miranda, Pidgin, Adium, Jimm, or even NatICQ. No one cared about how ICQ's owner would make money — and, really, no one should care about that, it's their own problem. Maybe if they made a client that's better than third-party offerings, then people would switch to it. But they never did.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand, why don't you force them to use Whatsapp (or Signal, or whatever) to contact you? Get an app that rejects by default SMSes coming from certain numbers. They want to text you at all? They need to use Whatsapp, otherwise they can go fuck themselves. (It worked for me when a friend wanted to force me to contact him on Telegram rather than Whatsapp- I resisted for weeks but at the end I gave in). Once…

I don't use SMS myself but in this case it sounds like I'd be better off just not being your friend.

Sounds like you'd prefer to keep inflicting to me and to yourself a degraded experience rather than making the tiny, one-time effort of installing a free app. Because that's the whole point of this issue: the fact that you can still get what you want (reaching me) is what prevents you from making the smallest effort to make both our lives better and easier. And I also don't expect my friends to behave like that.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#823
We finally need a giant lawsuit and final verdict to end messenger lock ins. This has been going on for nearly a decade now and all started with facebebook and google closing their xmpp apis. I just hope that the EU Digital Market Act interoperability requirements have teeth and we can finally get some freedom.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Hacker spirit is owning your machine to its full extent. For fun, for profit or just for mayhem. Apple using instant messaging, where no meaningful innovation happened for decades to build their moat is pathetic and disgusting.

> Hacker spirit is owning your machine to its full extent. I thought it was about owning anyone's machine to the full extent. Did this change during the past 30 years?

you be the judge - https://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#825

Brutal. Will there be refunds?

Well, to be fair, wasn't this always going to be the end state? I wouldn't be surprised if the choice of subscription plan was mostly because it makes "total value-time received" a really easy calculation. It worked for 2 months, you're not getting your 4$ back. Surprised it only lasted this long though, I'm sure they weren't betting on that. I still wouldn't expect a refund for the 1,50$ of 3 weeks this payment cycl…

You and I know that, but your average consumer has no idea, and could absolutely argue they have been swindled.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do offer 2FA via SMS. This is AFAIK the ONLY option for Android/non-Mac users. Why are those users less deserving of decent security? Apple still sells and offers services outside their platforms, so they're still customers potentially with hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of purchases and CCs attached. FFS Nintendo has better 2FA options than Apple for non-Apple platforms.

> Why are those users less deserving of decent security? Because they don't own an Apple device or have iMessage, which is the entire point of this discussion?

So Apple only cares about security for Apple platform users and not all users of Apple services? Such commitment to security...

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#827

The EU will probably look closely into that.

Why? iMessage so far isn't a part of the EU's plan. There's no requirement for it to be open.

It might be a breech of the GDPR's data portability requirements.

It comes down to if, by having people send you messages, you are the one providing the data to the data controller, or not.

Currently I think it's ambiguous.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#828
post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use WhatsApp - it works on both platforms.

The hacker spirit uses Signal. Promoting WhatsApp over the more open community-supported alternative is worse than gloating over Beeper.

not only does the hacker spirit use Signal, but they tell people that’s the only way they want to communicate. At least that’s what I do. It forced my friends to install Signal because of it six more people are using Signal.

People who contact me over SMS get an immediate phone call from me in response.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans. Humans are why we can't have nice things.

Personally nearly every nice thing in my life either is a human or was made by one

And every atrocity, driven by greed, envy or just sheer assholery?

Also humans.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Hacker spirit is owning your machine to its full extent. For fun, for profit or just for mayhem. Apple using instant messaging, where no meaningful innovation happened for decades to build their moat is pathetic and disgusting.

What is the meaningful innovation in messaging that happened elsewhere?

It didn't happen anywhere. Yet IM vendors (not only Apple) still pretend we need propertiary protocol to transport a few bytes of unicode. It should be standardized long time ago.
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