351–360 of 409 posts
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I was specifically speaking about the Nordic Model of which I am a member and a citizen. I could have been more clear but by "my" I meant as a citizen of a country participating in the Nordic Model. What the rest of Europe does is up to them. Unions are foundational to our (Scandinavia's) way of life. This fight ends with Tesla either agreeing to our model or losing our entire market.
To put into context, Tesla only employs 120 people in Sweden.
Small differences in labor law make all the difference. In Finland, Tesla repair shops follow the minimums stated in collective agreements and Musk probably don't even know about it. In Sweden it's issue for him. Finland has generally applicable collective agreements where employers should observe at least the provisions of a national collective agreement considered representative in the relevant sector. When a colle…
At this point the famed Swedish model shows its limits, IMHO. > "It's about the Swedish collective agreement model, and there is a consensus on it, both politically and between the parties in the labour market, Seko's president Gabriella Lavecchia told Reuters by email. And yet this is not a legal obligation, as far as I understand, and Tesla is acting lawfully. So the model seems to be that there are unwritten rules…
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Well, we see how that's going in America and it's a race to the bottom. 10 years experience, bachelor's degree required, starting pay of $35k/yr. A society cannot rely on a business whose sole motivation is profitability to provide power to what they view as a liability, not an asset.
America is in top three nations of the world for wages (OECD 2022). Sweden is 18th. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average...
> I disagree with the idea of unions. I just don’t like anything which creates a lords-and-peasants kind of thing So, Elon Musk has zero self-awareness. Good to know.
Maybe he meant he doesn't like anything which reveals or counteracts the lords-and-peasants thing that exists and from which he personally benefits.
US companies must be scared as hell about what would happen if we had strong sectoral bargaining and permitted sympathy strikes like Nordic countries.
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That is exaggregated. This is IF Metall vs Tesla, not Sweden vs Tesla.
Swede here. You are absolutely mistaken. This is a huge deal in whole of Scandinavia. Today Finland unions joined in. The other day both Norway and Danish unions joined in. Before that, many other Swedish unions joined in. This is Tesla versus the Scandinavian model rather.
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> extortion fees They have options of course: 1) Stop doing business in Sweden. 2) Sign a collective labor agreement that ensure worker's rights just as every other company that operates in Sweden .
Just because every other company in Sweden accepts extortion as part and parcel of doing business does not make extortion okay.
Complying with labor protections is not extortion.
And if Tesla does not wish to comply with the norms in Sweden they definitely should stop operating in the country.
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Maybe he meant he doesn't like anything which reveals or counteracts the lords-and-peasants thing that exists and from which he personally benefits.
Agreed - his comment makes complete sense if you s/creates a/pierces the veil of/ US companies must be scared as hell about what would happen if we had strong sectoral bargaining and permitted sympathy strikes like Nordic countries.
I forgot where that came from but it is a very powerful reminder who ultimately has power and that only in numbers that power can be effectively wielded.
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With who though? Not their workers. Can you cite coverage of the "union busting" activities you're talking about?
https://archive.is/gXGSn
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Tesla has refused to negotiate for over 5 years.
With who though? Not their workers. Can you cite coverage of the "union busting" activities you're talking about?
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Do they need to? That's what laws are for, in the case of Sweden it's the Employment Protection Act. The union can negotiate a better deal but it's not wild west at-will employment like in the US.
This is about mass layoffs, not terminating individual employees for "personal reasons". I am not an expert, but I think the union claims that this is one thing that is now worse for the Spotify employees who are laid off? Meaning, sure, there is a degree of basic legal protection, but during layoffs, having a collective bargaining agreement will give you better conditions than that?
I haven't seen what they are actually asking for in the case of Tesla Sweden. In Germany the discussion is mostly related to wages, safety/accidents and shift planning.