331–340 of 409 posts
With the kind of humor that Elon Musk has he should love the Swedish unions, as the Swedish name for union is “fack”, which is pronounced “fuck” Sounds like something he would like, in addition to his S,3,X,Y range of cars
Tesla is playing this as dumb and tone-deaf as they possibly could.
The important detail which most people seem to miss is that Tesla's workers aren't behind this. They don't want to unionize, because there's no reason to. The IF Metall union is striking because they just want to get their cut.
This is pure propaganda and can be ignored outright. IF Metall are driving these negotiations on behalf of their members working at Tesla - had they not shown any interest, IF Metall would not have bothered.
[0] https://twitter.com/NicklasNilsso14/status/17255571334358634...
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> What is striking here is that the Government offices all use the services of PostNord. Why is it striking? They own PostNord. It's 60% owned by Sweden's government, 40% by Denmark's. It's a state-owned corporation. The US government tends to use USPS for similar reasons.
Unlike the USPS, which is a a government branch with an universal service obligation, Sweeden has a liberalized postal market. This means PostNord won a public tender and has a contract to deliver services to the Swedish government, regardless of the ownership structure. So, far from being an action of the government itself, this is the doing of a private interest group - the unionized employees of a government contr…
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It’s easy to avoid actions like this: Sign a collective bargain with a union and all unions are bound to leave you at peace for that agreements duration. So far two international companies have refused this: Toys R Us decades ago, eventually they had to give in. Tesla now.
What you seem to miss is that this is not a labor dispute , it's a political dispute, Tesla has absolutely no conflict with its own employees. The employees of other companies - some, essential service providers for Swedish state - selectively target Tesla for what they perceive as a political threat to their interests. Where will these political demands stop? Will the unions drive into a bankruptcy any company that…
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It’s easy to avoid actions like this: Sign a collective bargain with a union and all unions are bound to leave you at peace for that agreements duration. So far two international companies have refused this: Toys R Us decades ago, eventually they had to give in. Tesla now.
Why? They pay taxes. They pay shipping. Why do you also have to pay extortion fees?
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It’s easy to avoid actions like this: Sign a collective bargain with a union and all unions are bound to leave you at peace for that agreements duration. So far two international companies have refused this: Toys R Us decades ago, eventually they had to give in. Tesla now.
Yeah it's very easy, just give in to the demands of the people blackmailing you. How didn't anybody thought of that before?
Who is blackmailing whom?
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Unlike the USPS, which is a a government branch with an universal service obligation, Sweeden has a liberalized postal market. This means PostNord won a public tender and has a contract to deliver services to the Swedish government, regardless of the ownership structure. So, far from being an action of the government itself, this is the doing of a private interest group - the unionized employees of a government contr…
The "rule of law" in Sweden explicitly permits collective action of this nature, doesn't it? Hence the court ruling?
What you might hint at is that the social contract is open to negotiation and Sweden, as a sovereign state, is certainly within its rights to operate its laws and courts as such. Sure. But is it wise, long term? I have my doubts.
One can see multiple confident and very different explanations in these threads. They can't all be correct at the same time. But at least it's people trying to unwrap what's going on and there are good responses and back and forths et.
A lot of it comes down to the mental models of Unions - they're very different depending on the country you work in. A lot of people just can't believe a system with powerful Unions can be a good non-corrupt system for employees and employers.
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As difficult as it might be to wrap our heads around it, no, there's no forcing, but it's the workers' collective decision as a union to not deliver to Tesla. A union is not some god-given abstract concept, it's a assembly of elected members of the workers which collectively voted to proceed this way. So the only "forcing" you could talk about is Tesla forcing them to accept unacceptable conditions, and even this wou…
As difficult as it is to wrap our heads around. If no one is forcing them not to do it, it is their decision not to. So when they say employees decision it's true.
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If you support taxes (or striking) and the government (or the union) forces you to pay taxes (or strike), you're not being "forced". So far so good. But what if you don't support taxes (or striking)? You might think taxes are a good thing and are necessary for a functioning society, but it's still pretty clear that for someone that doesn't want to pay taxes, they're forced to pay taxes.
>If [...] the government [...] forces you to pay taxes [...], you're not being "forced". So far so good. Wat? In a discussion about if someone is being forced to take an action, consider not overloading the string "forced" with several meanings.