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Dieselgate, but for trains – some heavyweight hardware hacking

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Re: Dieselgate, but for trains – some heavyweight hardware hacking

#81
post #62

Its insane how brazen this is. Code that 'bricks' the train locomotive if its gps coordinates remain with bounds of a competing repair facility for more than ten days! This is way beyond putting information barriers to repair, like undocumented interfaces or even crypto-signed firmware. This is actively malicious destruction of property. I don't know anything about the legal system in Poland, but I can't imagine how…

[deleted]

Re: Dieselgate, but for trains – some heavyweight hardware hacking

#82
post #80

Newag issued a statement since, denying all allegations and saying that it was their competition which "hired hackers to slander them". I've met q3k because we used to work at the same company and briefly on a project together. Not the kind of person I would suspect of participating in a conspiracy of this sort and Newag's statement generally reads like "we didn't think we would get caught".

[deleted]

Re: Dieselgate, but for trains – some heavyweight hardware hacking

#83
post #67
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell, even if governments are squeamish about requiring code to be fully open and public, they can still require the manufacturers to privately submit to the government all code that powers public infrastructure (like trains), to be made available to any relevant party upon request.

An organisation that is prepared to write "sabotage" software would have no problem deploying software that is different to the software they submit.

Compile the code yourself?

Re: Dieselgate, but for trains – some heavyweight hardware hacking

#84
I wonder if the solution to all these screwy engine controls (tampering with emissions testing, preventing 3rd party repairs, etc.) is to standardize the interfaces to these systems so they can be replaced.

Standardizing the outputs of the sensors would let us swap in and out various components to ensure the system is not cheating the regulators.

Re: Dieselgate, but for trains – some heavyweight hardware hacking

#85
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west is the least corrupt part of the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#/...

perception != reality

There are reasons for why we can assume that the west is the least corrupt area of the whole world.

Re: Dieselgate, but for trains – some heavyweight hardware hacking

#87
post #28

My impression is that the quality of train firmware is generally not very good, and I hope that this scandal will lead to greater scrutiny. 3 years ago, Deutsche Bahn publicly complained of "grotesque" software problems with newly delivered Bombardier trains. For example, when train drivers changed the direction of travel, the train software would crash. It then took 1 hour to boot the train up again [0]. Switzerland…

I think the compensation given to software developers by companies that view software as their product has drawn many of the skilled software developers away from jobs that would have once grabbed them because of the fun factor. Companies that make things that contain software are not in markets prepared to pay 2 and 3 times what they were for software. What you are left with is people who are willing to accept that…

That is true. You can get few times more money as regular Spring Java developer making CRUD in some bodyshop than writing industrial software for local Polish company.

Re: Dieselgate, but for trains – some heavyweight hardware hacking

#88
post #67
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell, even if governments are squeamish about requiring code to be fully open and public, they can still require the manufacturers to privately submit to the government all code that powers public infrastructure (like trains), to be made available to any relevant party upon request.

An organisation that is prepared to write "sabotage" software would have no problem deploying software that is different to the software they submit.

Implying that's an impossible obstacle. Reproducibility is a thing.

Make it so code needs to be reproducibly buildable. Only reproducibly buildable artifacts can be deployed on hardware. Document the whole process.

Re: Dieselgate, but for trains – some heavyweight hardware hacking

#89
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corruption is not just the dark side of Poland, but the entire west IMHO

The other 3 directions are corruption-free?

can't speak for the other continents but there is very little corruption in Antarctica, so I guess if you go South enough, it is actually better

Re: Dieselgate, but for trains – some heavyweight hardware hacking

#90
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is clear you haven't even clicked on the article. Shame on you. This deserves a ban from HN. Just reading the headlines and contributing to a discussion about that article as if you actually read it is deceptive and wrong. It's killing our ability to meaningfully discuss content when people just read the headlines. If you don't want to read articles and instead post about what you think the articles must be based…

he accepted he made a mistake, chill out. downvote and move on

I did - see below!
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