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Ask HN: How Do You Get over Worthlessness Feeling After Restructuring?

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Re: Ask HN: How Do You Get over Worthlessness Feeling After Restructuring?

#11

Post by syndicatedjelly »

sys_64738 wrote: post #8
syndicatedjelly wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you joking? This is extraordinarily bad advice and a great way to get blacklisted. At least be a little more tactful about it…

Blacklisted by who exactly? It’s a stupid job not something sinister. This is a standard tactic used by plenty of folk.

Maybe in “stupid-job” land, your reputation doesn’t matter and it’s normal to light it on fire for a quick buck.

    After 5 years working in a very successful product line, core to the company
This makes me think that what they do isn’t some “stupid job”. Not every subfield is massive with tons of nameless bosses and employers; sometimes people are really specialized. Word about shitty behavior spreads. Kinda like how word spreads in the dev community about bad employers

Re: Ask HN: How Do You Get over Worthlessness Feeling After Restructuring?

#12

Post by gregjor »

syndicatedjelly wrote: post #11
sys_64738 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blacklisted by who exactly? It’s a stupid job not something sinister. This is a standard tactic used by plenty of folk.

Maybe in “stupid-job” land, your reputation doesn’t matter and it’s normal to light it on fire for a quick buck. After 5 years working in a very successful product line, core to the company This makes me think that what they do isn’t some “stupid job”. Not every subfield is massive with tons of nameless bosses and employers; sometimes people are really specialized. Word about shitty behavior spreads. Kinda like how w…

Remember when your parents and teachers and pastor told you about your "permanent record?" You can stop worrying about that now, it's a lie. Criminal record, yes. Credit record yes. What you did in school or at the last job... no.

Most employers don't even check references. There's no equivalent of a job FICO score, no "blacklist" to get on. Sure, if you do something illegal or outrageous maybe you'll create problems down the road, but that's not even likely. Even massive frauds and failures like Adam Neumann and SBF get way more chances than they deserve, when everyone knows what they did.

There's nothing immoral or wrong with quitting a job and offering your services to your former employer at a better rate. That's how probably half of contractors and freelancers get started. And it's very common with C-suite and executive types, and politicians.

Re: Ask HN: How Do You Get over Worthlessness Feeling After Restructuring?

#13

Post by ipaddr »

syndicatedjelly wrote: post #7
sys_64738 wrote: post #5

Don't bother going to work anymore then wait for the call. Tell them your contracting rate is 500$ per hour.

Are you joking? This is extraordinarily bad advice and a great way to get blacklisted. At least be a little more tactful about it…

If a blacklist exists where can we view it?

Re: Ask HN: How Do You Get over Worthlessness Feeling After Restructuring?

#14

Post by ipaddr »

You have a great opportunity and gift use it wisely. You are in a rare situation where there is no one who can replace you easily and they don't want you to do much real work.

If you don't respond to an on call alert until the next day.. what are they going to do, fire you?

The maintenance work overloading you. Push back.. a week becomes two. Drag things on.. then push to upgrade to speed things up (and get you back in your domain). They will refuse but ignore your longer schedule.

Now you can take on that second job or prepare for interviews

Re: Ask HN: How Do You Get over Worthlessness Feeling After Restructuring?

#15

Post by shoo »

My sympathies, you've gotten a pretty raw deal.

> I have to be always on-call so nothing fails.

You have agency in where you set your boundaries with your employer, perhaps quite a lot more than you feel or have been exercising historically. Decide how much you on-call you are willing to do and don't do any more for free. E.g. if you're paid to work 40 hours per week, don't volunteer to donate another 20 hours of work to the investors for free. Do your 40 and turn work comms off.

Management has decided to under-resource your team, for management to understand this has caused a problem, they need to experience the consequences of the decision, and feel that it is causing a problem for them personally. You can help them understand the situation by limiting your on-call participation to a level that is sustainable and makes sense for you and your family (and leaves you with enough energy outside of work). Then if the system goes down when you are not scheduled on-call, you need to leave your managers to deal with the fallout until you are back at work in your scheduled business hours.

Re: Ask HN: How Do You Get over Worthlessness Feeling After Restructuring?

#16

Post by codingdave »

You aren't worthless, you are being given a significant amount of trust to use your specialized knowledge to single-handedly keep a system alive.

Now, I totally get that isn't the job you want, and they aren't treating you well. But it isn't a sign of being worthless. Find something better, but do it with confidence that you are seen as being quite capable in your work.

Re: Ask HN: How Do You Get over Worthlessness Feeling After Restructuring?

#17

Post by gnz11 »

You are most certainly not worthless. Your feelings on this will take time to resolve. Just remember that this situation is only temporary, you aren’t stuck for life. Many of us have been, are currently or will be in the same position. New opportunities will arise, I guarantee it. In the mean time, do whatever you can to renegotiate the on-call duty if you are the only one handling it. Since they are entirely reliant on you here, you have quite a bit of leverage.

Re: Ask HN: How Do You Get over Worthlessness Feeling After Restructuring?

#18

Post by syndicatedjelly »

gregjor wrote: post #12
syndicatedjelly wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in “stupid-job” land, your reputation doesn’t matter and it’s normal to light it on fire for a quick buck. After 5 years working in a very successful product line, core to the company This makes me think that what they do isn’t some “stupid job”. Not every subfield is massive with tons of nameless bosses and employers; sometimes people are really specialized. Word about shitty behavior spreads. Kinda like how w…

Remember when your parents and teachers and pastor told you about your "permanent record?" You can stop worrying about that now, it's a lie. Criminal record, yes. Credit record yes. What you did in school or at the last job... no. Most employers don't even check references. There's no equivalent of a job FICO score, no "blacklist" to get on. Sure, if you do something illegal or outrageous maybe you'll create problems…

> There's nothing immoral or wrong with quitting a job and offering your services to your former employer at a better rate.

I don’t disagree with that. No one does.

> Even massive frauds and failures like Adam Neumann and SBF get way more chances than they deserve, when everyone knows what they did.

Are those supposed to be examples of people whose behavior we should emulate? Would you feel good about cheating and lying your way to the top?

> Don't bother going to work anymore then wait for the call. Tell them your contracting rate is 500$ per hour.

Here’s what the original comment said. It implies they should stop working and then blackmail their employer (if you don’t pay me exorbitant sums, I will let your critical systems fail). Since you’re a different person replying on behalf of that commenter, let’s hear your defense of doing that.

Re: Ask HN: How Do You Get over Worthlessness Feeling After Restructuring?

#19

Post by sys_64738 »

syndicatedjelly wrote: post #18
gregjor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember when your parents and teachers and pastor told you about your "permanent record?" You can stop worrying about that now, it's a lie. Criminal record, yes. Credit record yes. What you did in school or at the last job... no. Most employers don't even check references. There's no equivalent of a job FICO score, no "blacklist" to get on. Sure, if you do something illegal or outrageous maybe you'll create problems…

> There's nothing immoral or wrong with quitting a job and offering your services to your former employer at a better rate. I don’t disagree with that. No one does. > Even massive frauds and failures like Adam Neumann and SBF get way more chances than they deserve, when everyone knows what they did. Are those supposed to be examples of people whose behavior we should emulate? Would you feel good about cheating and ly…

> Here’s what the original comment said. It implies they should stop working and then blackmail their employer (if you don’t pay me exorbitant sums, I will let your critical systems fail). Since you’re a different person replying on behalf of that commenter, let’s hear your defense of doing that.

You really sound confused about your moral obligation to any employer. Hint: you have none. Contractors are not extorting or blackmailing. You sound like a manager or owner of a business who doesn’t grasp what the employment relationship is.

Re: Ask HN: How Do You Get over Worthlessness Feeling After Restructuring?

#20

Post by syndicatedjelly »

sys_64738 wrote: post #19
syndicatedjelly wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's nothing immoral or wrong with quitting a job and offering your services to your former employer at a better rate. I don’t disagree with that. No one does. > Even massive frauds and failures like Adam Neumann and SBF get way more chances than they deserve, when everyone knows what they did. Are those supposed to be examples of people whose behavior we should emulate? Would you feel good about cheating and ly…

> Here’s what the original comment said. It implies they should stop working and then blackmail their employer (if you don’t pay me exorbitant sums, I will let your critical systems fail). Since you’re a different person replying on behalf of that commenter, let’s hear your defense of doing that. You really sound confused about your moral obligation to any employer. Hint: you have none. Contractors are not extorting…

You know, I’m interested in having an intellectually honest and respectful discussion. I’m not an employer or boss; just a lowly dev with a tiny bit of self respect. Good day to you.
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