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Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

amsterdam.nl

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Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#151

Post by Gibbon1 »

josephcsible wrote: post #149
ignormies wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kind of the point. Part of the design of Dutch cities is to make the fastest, most direct, most convenient form of transportation _not_ the car. You use a car when you _have_ to, not simply as a default. If it takes longer to get to your intra-city destination in a car, that's the city working as intended.

> Part of the design of Dutch cities is to make the fastest, most direct, most convenient form of transportation _not_ the car. That's only a good thing if you accomplish it by making other forms of transportation faster and more direct. It's a bad thing if you do it by making cars slower and less direct.

A thing that makes other forms of transport slow is called an urban freeway.

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#152

Post by jochem9 »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #22
ElijahLynn wrote: post #7

The "quieter" aspect is no joke. For the first time in my life, I moved into an apartment near a busy road, the noise is very difficult and I have to wear silicone ear plugs/pillows at night just to sleep because of car noise, especially people with loud motorcycles and trucks and cars that think everyone wants to hear them at 2am. Outside of that over-the-top "flex" noise, just the car noise is fatiguing. One can sa…

The loud motorcycle crowd deserve death. I am a pacifist and believe strongly that love and kindness is the natural state of man, but people unwinding their modified bikes down residential streets are just malicious monsters who torture entire neighborhoods for their perverse pleasure. I don’t buy their “to be noticed by cars on the highway” malarkey, since they wind up their motors to earth shattering levels on city…

Wtf, wishing dead upon people while proclaiming to be a pacifist and believing in love and kindness?!

You could also just wish that their bike gets crushed and that they loose their licence. Or maybe that they get an itch they just can't quite reach.

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#153

Post by robocat »

whazor wrote: post #147
robocat wrote: post #143

They have introduced 30km/h limits in my city center (Christchurch, New Zealand). Also introduced synchronized lights to reduce traffic speed. Plus techniques to take traffic away from city center. And reducing parking. Traffic is now far more congested - as must have been expected by the planners. And people are avoiding going to the city center for shopping/meals/etcetera. AFAIK the planners do not measure outcomes…

I work next to a road in Amsterdam where cars are currently driving 50 and will have to drive 30. My view is that the cars always have to wait at the traffic lights, because it is too busy with traffic. So essentially they speed up to 50 just to stop again moments later. Therefore I think the time difference will not be very big.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Depends on the timing phases of the lights.

Certainly the new 30km/h and modified phases has caused noticable congestion where previously traffic flowed very well.

Sure to be safer for pedestrians and cyclists because the traffic is now mostly at a standstill.

On some roads you could race the phases and go 60 to 70 in a 50 zone.

I would be interested to see a measure for the improvement in safety. People were careful on those roads, and can now be more cavalier e.g. cyclists lane splitting and pedestrians jaywalking through dense standstill traffic.

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#154

Post by jochem9 »

BlarfMcFlarf wrote: post #89
remh wrote: post #46

So many comments in here using the context of US cities and missed that Amsterdam (like most big european cities) is not designed for high throughput car transportation and as a result painting that decision as making things "crazy slow" and that it "sounds terrible". I highly encourage you to go live a week in a big old european city (Paris, London, Berlin, Amsterdam, Madrid) without renting a car to understand why…

Amsterdam notably was designed for cars in the 70s afaik, but they consciously redesigned it over time. So I’m a few decades, it could be your American city.

Pretty much all of Amsterdam is pre-WW2 or older. Only the parts outside the A10 ringroad tend to be post war and more car friendly.

There were indeed plans to bulldoze large parts of the old city and build highways and high rises, but after many protests almost no plans were executed.

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#155

Post by 28304283409234 »

charcircuit wrote: post #31
zwieback wrote: post #11

That's 18.6 mph, slower than the speed limit around US schools. Is the expectation people will go 20 or 25 mph (32 to 40 km/h) in reality?

In the US it wouldn't make sense. Spending 2 hours to go to the grocery store and back just on the travelling part would be a big commitment whenever you needed to go.

Taking the car to do grocery shopping does not even exist in Amsterdam. We have bikes and healthy minds and bodies.

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#156

Post by jochem9 »

robocat wrote: post #143

They have introduced 30km/h limits in my city center (Christchurch, New Zealand). Also introduced synchronized lights to reduce traffic speed. Plus techniques to take traffic away from city center. And reducing parking. Traffic is now far more congested - as must have been expected by the planners. And people are avoiding going to the city center for shopping/meals/etcetera. AFAIK the planners do not measure outcomes…

Cycling infrastructure is much cheaper than car infrastructure. Way less material needed (narrower paths, less foundation) and much lower maintenance costs.

Initial investment per cyclist might seem high, but you need to build it before they come. And they come. Just look at Amsterdam (became a cycling city in the 70s) or Paris (started investing heavily in cycling infra a little less than 10 years ago).

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#157

Post by 28304283409234 »

toomim wrote: post #80
gumballindie wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is terrible. They introduced similar speed limits in parts of London UK and it sucks. It does help with noise pollution but driving in London on empty roads at 20 mph is horrible.

It also happened in Portland in 2018, and it sucks, and makes me avoid Portland. The speed limit is 20mph on most roads, no matter how many lanes of empty tarmac there is, what time of day it is, with how much visibility, how straight the road is, etc. It's a blind political statement with no regard to the actual roads and their circumstances.

Because the tarmac is empty does not mean the people and nature living around the roads are gone. Whenever resource sharing with other living creatures pops up in America it somehow gets turned into a 'blind policital statement'.

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#158

Post by 28304283409234 »

jacquesm wrote: post #118
toomim wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your goal is to remove people from the city who value efficiency and productivity? Or are you saying that you don't like me, personally, and want me to leave?

Are those the only two choices?

And also: do those options cancel each other, or other options, out?

Also also: if so, then yes. To hell with efficiency and productivity. If they can't share, I don't care.

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#159

Post by 28304283409234 »

alienicecream wrote: post #126

People have truly lost their minds with this fetish for safety. This is what happens when you don't have a good old fashioned war for a couple of generations. We are breeding weakness and fear.

Getting people out of cars and onto bikes and/or walking is weakening them? Hm.

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#160

Post by CogitoCogito »

jochem9 wrote: post #152
fnordpiglet wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loud motorcycle crowd deserve death. I am a pacifist and believe strongly that love and kindness is the natural state of man, but people unwinding their modified bikes down residential streets are just malicious monsters who torture entire neighborhoods for their perverse pleasure. I don’t buy their “to be noticed by cars on the highway” malarkey, since they wind up their motors to earth shattering levels on city…

Wtf, wishing dead upon people while proclaiming to be a pacifist and believing in love and kindness?! You could also just wish that their bike gets crushed and that they loose their licence. Or maybe that they get an itch they just can't quite reach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_device#Hyperbole
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