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OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

businessinsider.com

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Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#171

Post by scarface_74 »

vthallam wrote: post #97
xazzy wrote: post #40

Am an employee, signed the letter. I can't read the article so maybe the content is more nuanced, but the framing irks me. This all happened really fast and the offer was informal. I can only speak for myself but I do have a lot of respect for modern MS, and would have seriously considered the move if that's what kept the team together and comp was reasonable. I would be surprised if most people felt differently.

> >> and comp was reasonable there's no way you guys would get the same comp though? like not even close. MSFT irrespective of how much it wants you is not going to honor the 10X increase in valuation from the upcoming $90 billion valuation. Even if they do, you will miss on the upside. MSFT stock is not going to 10X but OpenAI's might.

How much do you really think that valuation would stand once OpenAI doesn’t get the massive subsidies from MS on compute? OpenAI couldn’t even be an ongoing concern.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#172

Post by trompetenaccoun »

xazzy wrote: post #40

Am an employee, signed the letter. I can't read the article so maybe the content is more nuanced, but the framing irks me. This all happened really fast and the offer was informal. I can only speak for myself but I do have a lot of respect for modern MS, and would have seriously considered the move if that's what kept the team together and comp was reasonable. I would be surprised if most people felt differently.

I'm not a fan of "as an X" posts, unless there is evidence the user actually is X. With an anon account, not much history on HN and no apparent link to OpenAI, for all we know this might as well be someone from the Microsoft PR team.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#173

Post by scarface_74 »

andsoitis wrote: post #108
xazzy wrote: post #40

Am an employee, signed the letter. I can't read the article so maybe the content is more nuanced, but the framing irks me. This all happened really fast and the offer was informal. I can only speak for myself but I do have a lot of respect for modern MS, and would have seriously considered the move if that's what kept the team together and comp was reasonable. I would be surprised if most people felt differently.

the conversation in this thread makes me wonder about whether the right incentives for OpenAI should be to make tons of money. Personally, I prefer to make tons of money, but as someone who will not have a say in whether to participate in an AI-driven world, I would prefer if there were non-profit counterweights. Perhaps governments will have the wherewithal to steer things but I am somewhat concerned.

You really think “non profits” are any less power hungry than for profits?

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#174

Post by marvin »

reso wrote: post #53

I am still so confused by this whole saga. No one has explained how or why the entire board decided to do a coup, and then simply changed their minds a few days later. I have to assume that the individuals involved are under a mix of social and legal pressure to not talk about the circumstances.

A majority of the OpenAI board members were heavily sympathetic to the AI doomsday cult mostly known through MIRI. A novel discovery spooked them, made them believe that The End Is Near, and that continuing on the path led by Altman would lead to imminent disaster. OpenAI is designed so that the board do pretty much whatever they deem necessary if this happens, and the board interpreted the necessary action as unilaterally halting AI development -- a staple objective of the AI doomsday cult.

So the board did this. They jumped the gun - this extreme move might have become justified at a later point in time, but definitely not yet. In a pedestrian understanding of game theory typical of AI doomsday cult members, the board failed to anticipate that other actors may not agree with their interpretation of reality, and perform their own actions in response. This response largely boiled down to scattering the institutional knowledge of OpenAI to the winds, in their eyes greatly exacerbating the safety concerns that led to firing Altman in the first place.

Altman, meanwhile, as a strong believer in OpenAI's mission, attempted to salvage the situation by brokering a deal to transfer OpenAI's institutional knowledge to Microsoft.

After having their shitty options explained to them - exacerbate a potential safety risk by seeding 750 new AI companies, leave control of the situation to Microsoft's board or step down and retain control under the OpenAI non-profit, they folded like a wet paper bag. The whole saga was a waste of their board seats and influence on humanity's first deployment of AGI. They all got the outcome that their competence deserved.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#175

Post by scarface_74 »

kbenson wrote: post #139
staunton wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who supported the board was in a situation where they deemed they could afford to go against the peer pressure. This is a combination of acting according to their beliefs/values and economic security. Those people should be envied, not pitied.

We should envy people that stand firm on their beliefs and are vindicated, not those that may experience backlash in the future because people that had a different view won in the end. Suffering hardship for doing what you think is right is not something to envy. Don't envy martyrs, wish for a world without the need for them.

How many people will stand by their “beliefs” at the cost of millions of dollars?

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#176

Post by scarface_74 »

ElevenLathe wrote: post #74
andy99 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's "business insider". Don't underestimate how poorly management understands "technical resources". I can certainly see lots of leadership just assuming that pay is the only relevant variable and ignore culture entirely during an acquihire, assuming people are fine doing whatever as long as they're paid.

Even from a compensation point of view, they presumably have a better chance for a big exit of some kind at a startup vs as a Microsoft employee.

A startup that was going to implode? And if you think random “some kind of startup” will have a realistic chance of some type of exit, I got a startup idea where you can be an unpaid employee for “equity”.

In what world in today’s market do you really think open AI would ever see its value at an exit based on their current revenue model?

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#177

Post by jrockway »

mrtksn wrote: post #106
xazzy wrote: post #40

Am an employee, signed the letter. I can't read the article so maybe the content is more nuanced, but the framing irks me. This all happened really fast and the offer was informal. I can only speak for myself but I do have a lot of respect for modern MS, and would have seriously considered the move if that's what kept the team together and comp was reasonable. I would be surprised if most people felt differently.

Obviously MS does some great things but I wonder what do you think about their culture? MS is trying to make me use Edge Browser by randomly refusing to let me use Bing chat in any other browser. This makes me think that MS is still evil and will force me to do things the moment they can. I gave up Bing Chat because of this and was using Perplexity.ai instead, until Bing got integrated into ChatGPT. Another thing is…

I don't think any of that really affects the day-to-day at OpenAI if they got bought. There are plenty of counter-examples for forcing you to use Edge or ads in the Start menu. They made Typescript. They made VS Code. Those teams are just doing their thing, and it's very likely that OpenAI would be like that. Microsoft is past the world of "everyone must use our browser and OS", they really just want to sell any of their products if you'll buy them. Like, I use Outlook on my iPhone because my organization uses Office 365. That would have been unheard of a couple decades ago; Outlook and Windows was their moneymaker and if you wanted one you got both. But now, it's just teams doing their own thing.

The likely effect on day-to-day for OpenAI would have been a different promotion process, their stock being worth $0, and having to use a different videoconferencing solution. I worked at a startup that got bought by a huge company, and that's basically all that changed for us. Our team continues to work on our product, and I'm only vaguely aware of what the rest of the company even does. (I think they make servers? Like solder together chips and put them in the box.) Day-to-day doesn't change much; it's the same people, the same code, and the same goals. I didn't get bought by Microsoft, but I can't imagine that these strategic acquisitions are much different across the Fortune 500.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#178

Post by a_bonobo »

scarface_74 wrote: post #167
mrtksn wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously MS does some great things but I wonder what do you think about their culture? MS is trying to make me use Edge Browser by randomly refusing to let me use Bing chat in any other browser. This makes me think that MS is still evil and will force me to do things the moment they can. I gave up Bing Chat because of this and was using Perplexity.ai instead, until Bing got integrated into ChatGPT. Another thing is…

Open AI doesn’t have any meaningful “products” they have good technology and they charge $20 a month for a subscription to a technology demo that doesn’t come close to covering their costs. You think the employees at “Open” AI care about anything more than their large paychecks no matter what they say?

It is implied in OP's reply too, right? No word about 'hey we're giving powerful tech to a hyper-monopolist', it's only about your friends and the money

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#179

Post by scarface_74 »

zlg_codes wrote: post #90
Laaas wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't miss the cloud revolution, and certainly not the AI revolution either. Microsoft is doing absolutely great under Satya Nadella.

Weird, Microsoft's been invisible to me since the early 2000s. I don't think they could sell me anything. Their whole corporate image is just slimy. Like that one friend that wants you to set up an account on something he's got going, or wants you to join him on an investment. You can totally trust him. You'll have a site, some cloud storage, office software, the works. And the investment? Yeah dude it'll rocket any…

Because a company that is “invisible” to a random person on HN that has been one of the most valuable companies in the world for over 20 years and still sells the operating system powering most of the worlds personal computers, 2nd largest cloud provider, and is embedded deeply in most large enterprises and government, it should mean what exactly?

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#180

Post by jrockway »

tymekpavel wrote: post #165
mrtksn wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, what other company does it? You may say Apple & App Store but that's not the same.

Apple/iMessage/Safari Google/Android/Chrome/YouTube Meta/Messenger/Facebook/WhatsApp ...just to name a few.

I don't know if Safari is that important to Apple. I have the enhanced data security feature of iCloud turned on, and I can still access my stuff in Chrome on the iCloud web interface (via the auth flow on my phone). It's actually exceedingly well-thought out and a nice bone to throw to Windows users that otherwise use Apple stuff! They could have been Safari-only or Mac-only, but aren't, even for super niche features.
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