Earlier quoted context omitted.
> >> and comp was reasonable there's no way you guys would get the same comp though? like not even close. MSFT irrespective of how much it wants you is not going to honor the 10X increase in valuation from the upcoming $90 billion valuation. Even if they do, you will miss on the upside. MSFT stock is not going to 10X but OpenAI's might.
100% vthallam. The upside for OpenAI is much higher.
OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft
121–130 of 264 posts
Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft
#122How does crap like this get published? Not a shred of evidence is given for its assertions, and they sound pretty preposterous. Nobody actually wanted to go to Microsoft, and they didn't even think Altman was that great as a CEO. So why did they all sign the letter threatening to quit? Mysterious unspecified "pressure". Why did Microsoft claim it was willing to hire the OpenAI team at their current compensation level…
> How does crap like this get published? That is easy to answer: BI belongs to the infamous German media conglomerate Axel Springer [1], hosting one of Europe's most vile, disgusting and scandal-ridden [2][3] tabloids called "BILD" and its barely veiled sister publication "WELT". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Insider [2] https://www.swr.de/swr2/wissen/70-jahre-bild-zeitung-zwische... [3] https://de.stati…
Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft
#123I am still so confused by this whole saga. No one has explained how or why the entire board decided to do a coup, and then simply changed their minds a few days later. I have to assume that the individuals involved are under a mix of social and legal pressure to not talk about the circumstances.
I don't know how anyone can call the board's action a "coup." Calling it that seems to be a propagandistic abuse of the term.
The board was in charge, and it's not a coup if it fires a subordinate (the CEO). If anything, the coup was getting the board ousted.
Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
He has said in podcasts he is motivated not by the money but by the power he has at OpenAI
Do you have an actual quote? I've listened to him talk a lot, and this feels like a misquote or misinterpretation. (I'm not saying it's not true; I just don't see Sam saying he personally likes power)
“I get like all of the power of running OpenAI” “I don’t think it’s particularly altruistic. Like it would be if I didn’t already have a bunch of money. The money is gonna pile up faster than I can spend it anyway.”
Those I think are either from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sWH2e5xpdo or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hpuPi7YZX8
Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft
#125Am an employee, signed the letter. I can't read the article so maybe the content is more nuanced, but the framing irks me. This all happened really fast and the offer was informal. I can only speak for myself but I do have a lot of respect for modern MS, and would have seriously considered the move if that's what kept the team together and comp was reasonable. I would be surprised if most people felt differently.
Obviously MS does some great things but I wonder what do you think about their culture? MS is trying to make me use Edge Browser by randomly refusing to let me use Bing chat in any other browser. This makes me think that MS is still evil and will force me to do things the moment they can. I gave up Bing Chat because of this and was using Perplexity.ai instead, until Bing got integrated into ChatGPT. Another thing is…
All big corporations are "evil", as in, their decisionmaking is scaled and institutionalized enough to effectively implement the goal of "maximizing shareholder value" above what's good for you or society.
Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Weird, Microsoft's been invisible to me since the early 2000s. I don't think they could sell me anything. Their whole corporate image is just slimy. Like that one friend that wants you to set up an account on something he's got going, or wants you to join him on an investment. You can totally trust him. You'll have a site, some cloud storage, office software, the works. And the investment? Yeah dude it'll rocket any…
> What can Microsoft do for a programmer who self-hosts and doesn't trust proprietary software? Ignore them and market themselves to the remaining 99% of programmers.
Many people use proprietary software because they're forced to for work or social circumstances (i.e. banking and messaging apps), not by choice. In other words, they're socially engineered into it. Why trust software you can't inspect? Because it has a big brand behind it? Because no software company has ever betrayed the trust of its customers? Companies never do deals with shady partners that end up betraying them, and in turn their customers too? Transparency fixes this, and it can mitigate a company going rogue on its own product and customers.
Libre software can certainly suck in some areas of the stack, but at least I can do more than send an e-mail to an unmonitored inbox at a corporation where my ass doesn't matter as soon as they have my money. I'll get a form letter containing a response to what some random bot thinks I'm talking about, and my concern will not be addressed, even as a paying customer. In a world of software that I can inspect the code of, I might be able to research my way out of a tech issue. The contention is that even as a customer, I can't count on Microsoft addressing any problems I encounter. If you're already coming at me with "get ignored, go away" then what's the incentive to engage at all?
You're right that some sectors are ignored, probably because they believe they should be paid for providing certain things. Fair to have that opinion, but it's also fair for me to disagree with it, criticize it, and share that criticism.
I still give Microsoft software a shot from time to time, to make sure my understanding of it is at least semi-recent. But by and large, I don't enjoy my interactions with their ecosystem. Setting up Minecraft Realms and mitigating differences between Java and Bedrock was a PITA. The migration from Mojang was a pain. I did enjoy getting Bedrock for free with my transfer. That was a solid move that showed they understood it was a pain and were willing to part with a little revenue in the short term in the hopes I'd buy content in the long term. (I did, for the record.)
But that's video games. I don't mind them being proprietary because I'm there to have fun. As long as it's not chatting over the network or doing analytics and other shit, I'm fine with a game not coming with source code. But I also love that gzDoom, darkplaces, TADS, LÖVE2D, TIC-80, and other open engines exist where people can bring their own creations to life in a non-profit environment. Microsoft itself started in a bougie garage, they ought to appreciate the spirit of DIY.
I've paid for things so it's not like I won't buy anything. My experience and view is not any less deserving of expression simply because it's less popular, though. There are plenty of people out there similar to me in distrusting Microsoft and other big tech companies' software. Minecraft isn't perfect, it has analytics and a forced word filter, and no way to self-host a Bedrock server. None of those were a thing when I bought it back in 2011 or so. They want me to pay for a Realm for that. And I did, for a little while, due to family members wanting to play, but I realized I could host it for cheaper. Eventually we stopped playing anyway, so I didn't have to worry about it.
Most people simply don't care about software freedom, and chide and ridicule those who do. Unsurprising, but still no less disappointing when encountering it among those who like to develop an air of distinction and taste but come up lacking in conversation. If they care so little, why be shitty to those who do?
Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft
#127Am an employee, signed the letter. I can't read the article so maybe the content is more nuanced, but the framing irks me. This all happened really fast and the offer was informal. I can only speak for myself but I do have a lot of respect for modern MS, and would have seriously considered the move if that's what kept the team together and comp was reasonable. I would be surprised if most people felt differently.
> >> and comp was reasonable there's no way you guys would get the same comp though? like not even close. MSFT irrespective of how much it wants you is not going to honor the 10X increase in valuation from the upcoming $90 billion valuation. Even if they do, you will miss on the upside. MSFT stock is not going to 10X but OpenAI's might.
I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that due to the existence of leverage. You can make MSFT have the potential to 10x (or ÷10) if you want.
Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft
#128Why would OpenAI employees want to jump ship to Microsoft, especially when Microsoft's been slashing jobs and freezing pay? Doesn't really add up for me.
Even in normal times, Microsoft does stack ranking. It's not great.
Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have an actual quote? I've listened to him talk a lot, and this feels like a misquote or misinterpretation. (I'm not saying it's not true; I just don't see Sam saying he personally likes power)
Here are a couple I could find in notes I took while listening to podcasts, though there are more - “I get like all of the power of running OpenAI” “I don’t think it’s particularly altruistic. Like it would be if I didn’t already have a bunch of money. The money is gonna pile up faster than I can spend it anyway.” Those I think are either from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sWH2e5xpdo or https://www.youtube.com/wat…
"I mean I have like lots of selfish reasons for doing this and as you've said I get like all the power of running OpenAI, but I can't think of anything more fulfilling to work on and I don't think it's particularly altruistic, it would be if I didn't already have a bunch of money, yeah, the money is gonna pile up faster than I can spend it"
Some other fascinating and relevant stuff in that video too.
Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
This recent TIME article lays out the saga pretty straightforwardly and makes it a bit less confusing. https://time.com/6342827/ceo-of-the-year-2023-sam-altman/ At least, that was how I felt after reading it. Basically, within the span of a year, OpenAI transformed from a research lab inside a non-profit that was pursuing a seemingly-Quixiotic dream of artificial general intelligence (AGI)... into one of the fastest-…
I think that all makes sense. Things would have played out very differently if the board was more experienced and thoughtful. Their hearts might have been in the right place, but their actions were reckless and ultimately backfired.