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OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

businessinsider.com

61–70 of 264 posts

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#61
post #49
post #30

Is it actually news that 70% (or whatever) of the employees at a hot startup wouldn't go to work for Microsoft even if they kept their compensation packages (which would probably have a lot of asterisks attached) because of executive suite drama?

It's not just the compensation however, the article explains that by switching to Microsoft they would have lost their equity packages, which are worth even more than their salary...

Potential equity packages. But hence my comment about asterisks. Maybe moving to Microsoft would be a good financial deal, maybe a bad deal, but certainly a different deal. Especially in the absence of a formal deal.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because IBM is both bigger and slower?

I don't think IBM is something that comes to mind when people are talking "Major tech companies" anymore.

They ought to, considering they acquired Red Hat a while back.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#63

How does crap like this get published? Not a shred of evidence is given for its assertions, and they sound pretty preposterous. Nobody actually wanted to go to Microsoft, and they didn't even think Altman was that great as a CEO. So why did they all sign the letter threatening to quit? Mysterious unspecified "pressure". Why did Microsoft claim it was willing to hire the OpenAI team at their current compensation level…

> How does crap like this get published?

That is easy to answer: BI belongs to the infamous German media conglomerate Axel Springer [1], hosting one of Europe's most vile, disgusting and scandal-ridden [2][3] tabloids called "BILD" and its barely veiled sister publication "WELT".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Insider

[2] https://www.swr.de/swr2/wissen/70-jahre-bild-zeitung-zwische...

[3] https://de.statista.com/infografik/2588/publikationen-mit-de...

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#64
post #53

I am still so confused by this whole saga. No one has explained how or why the entire board decided to do a coup, and then simply changed their minds a few days later. I have to assume that the individuals involved are under a mix of social and legal pressure to not talk about the circumstances.

The speculation seems to be that Sam was being duplicitous and trying to oust a board member he didn't like. Members of the board compared notes and realized he had misrepresented his conversations with other members in an attempt to build concensus. Throw in the rapid expansion of OpenAI (commercialization being in conflict with the board's vague mandate to do what's best for humanity) and the rumored (now confirmed) deal he was arranging with a company that he had a financial stake in, and they felt like they needed to remove him.

However, by trying to do so swiftly and not allowing him a chance to retaliate they pissed off Microsoft and the employees. At that point, they were basically forced to reinstate him or the entire company would collapse — and if they do that, they can't also go on record clarifying why he's bad.

* this is my vague recollection based on reading past discussions. I'm on my phone right now and unfortunately don't have any sources I can link, take this with a grain of salt.

Edit: a few links

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38559770

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38548404

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#65
post #34
post #30

Is it actually news that 70% (or whatever) of the employees at a hot startup wouldn't go to work for Microsoft even if they kept their compensation packages (which would probably have a lot of asterisks attached) because of executive suite drama?

It's "business insider". Don't underestimate how poorly management understands "technical resources". I can certainly see lots of leadership just assuming that pay is the only relevant variable and ignore culture entirely during an acquihire, assuming people are fine doing whatever as long as they're paid.

To be fair, there are a lot of devs for whom compensation is the only thing that really matters -- they are overrepresented here on HN, even. It would be pretty easy to assume that's the majority point of view.

It also may be that's exactly the sort of person that Microsoft prefers, too, but I don't know.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#66
post #47

> A scheduled tender offer, which was about to let employees sell their existing vested equity to outside investors, would have been canceled. All that equity would have been worth "nothing," this employee said. > The former OpenAI employee estimated that, of the hundreds of people who signed the letter saying they would leave, "probably 70% of the folks on that list were like, 'Hey, can we, you know, have this tende…

> If that one person's speculation is true, does the non-profit have an alignment problem, with employees who are doing the technical work -- that the employees are motivated more by individual financial situations, than by the non-profit's mission?

Yes, and moreover they've created a compensation structure which actively creates incentives that are contrary to the charity's mission.

This was probably the easiest way to attract talent that had high paying alternatives and weren't particularly interested in the charity's mission, but that was always a fundamental problem with choosing a for-profit entity with that kind of needs as the primary funding vehicle for the charity and also the primary means by which it would achieve research, etc., directed at its charitable purpose.

The problem -- taking OpenAI's stated charitable mission at face value [0] -- is that there was nowhere close to enough money available from people concerned with that mission to pay for it, and OpenAI's response was to go all-in on the most straightforward path of raising sufficient funds given what resources it had and what the market looked like without sufficiently considering the alignment of its fundraising mechanism with the purpose for which it was raising funds.

[0] which I should emphasize that I do for the sake of argument, not because I necessarily believe that it represents the genuine purposes of the people involved even initially.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#67
> Given the absence of interest in joining Microsoft, many OpenAI employees "felt pressured" to sign the open letter, the employee admitted. The letter itself was drafted by a group of longtime staffers who have the most clout and money at stake with years of industry standing and equity built up, as well as higher pay. They began calling other staffers late on Sunday night, urging them to sign, the employee explained.

What a clusterfuck. I feel bad for anyone who supported the board.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#68
post #53

I am still so confused by this whole saga. No one has explained how or why the entire board decided to do a coup, and then simply changed their minds a few days later. I have to assume that the individuals involved are under a mix of social and legal pressure to not talk about the circumstances.

The speculation seems to be that Sam was being duplicitous and trying to oust a board member he didn't like. Members of the board compared notes and realized he had misrepresented his conversations with other members in an attempt to build concensus. Throw in the rapid expansion of OpenAI (commercialization being in conflict with the board's vague mandate to do what's best for humanity) and the rumored (now confirmed…

Their communication strategy was also juvenile at best.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#69
post #47

> A scheduled tender offer, which was about to let employees sell their existing vested equity to outside investors, would have been canceled. All that equity would have been worth "nothing," this employee said. > The former OpenAI employee estimated that, of the hundreds of people who signed the letter saying they would leave, "probably 70% of the folks on that list were like, 'Hey, can we, you know, have this tende…

I think it's relatively easy to prove that the main motivation for the majority of employees is not mission alignment, simply by the fact that salaries within OpenAI are in the top few percentile of the field. I don't believe this is necessarily in conflict with the mission though. Employees are mercenaries, it's up to management/leadership to enforce the mission and make sure employees contribute to it positively. T…

> it's up to management/leadership to enforce the mission and make sure employees contribute to it positively.

But surely, the primary tool that leadership has to do that is by selecting employees who are on the same page as them. A purely mercenary workforce is very undesirable unless the company is also mercenary.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#70
post #47

> A scheduled tender offer, which was about to let employees sell their existing vested equity to outside investors, would have been canceled. All that equity would have been worth "nothing," this employee said. > The former OpenAI employee estimated that, of the hundreds of people who signed the letter saying they would leave, "probably 70% of the folks on that list were like, 'Hey, can we, you know, have this tende…

>Is it possible to structure things such that the people doing the work don't have to think about their individual financial situations, and can focus 100% on the actual mission?

Mostly no. People may not only care about money. But money is pretty important--at least until you get into pretty large numbers. And then it's still a pretty important keeping score metric.

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