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Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

reuters.com

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Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#51

Post by Novosell »

hiatus wrote: post #40
VoxPelli wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both, unlike in the US the Swedish post office is privatized and handled by multiple companies, eg Citymail also offers postal services. PostNord has won the tender with the Swedish transport authority though and as such is the one they should use. PostNord is the result of the merger between the privatized (but state owned) Swedish and Danish postal services. But also – union rights and postal rights needs to be wei…

I am surprised that in this case Swedes value individual rights over their duty to the public.

Their "duty to the public" being to deliver license plates to Tesla? Really?

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#52

Post by jltsiren »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #18
nabla9 wrote: post #2

Small differences in labor law make all the difference. In Finland, Tesla repair shops follow the minimums stated in collective agreements and Musk probably don't even know about it. In Sweden it's issue for him. Finland has generally applicable collective agreements where employers should observe at least the provisions of a national collective agreement considered representative in the relevant sector. When a colle…

At this point the famed Swedish model shows its limits, IMHO. > "It's about the Swedish collective agreement model, and there is a consensus on it, both politically and between the parties in the labour market, Seko's president Gabriella Lavecchia told Reuters by email. And yet this is not a legal obligation, as far as I understand, and Tesla is acting lawfully. So the model seems to be that there are unwritten rules…

Every culture has its own unwritten rules and customs. If you want to do business in a foreign culture, it's your responsibility to learn those customs and adapt to them. If you refuse to adapt and your business suffers because of the backlash, the cause of failure was your cultural insensitivity and/or ignorance.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#53

Post by drakonka »

mongol wrote: post #35
eddtries wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and one is the principles of a large car company from another country while the other is the social underpinnings of the countries entire labour market going back a century

That is exaggregated. This is IF Metall vs Tesla, not Sweden vs Tesla.

It isn't just IF Metall vs Tesla in practice. The result of this whole thing will impact Swedish labor standards as a whole by setting a critical precedent for both companies and unions. I'm not part of IF Metall, but also not naive enough to think this power struggle won't affect me or people I care about working in Sweden in the future.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#54

Post by mytailorisrich »

ysofunny wrote: post #36

does this mean sweeden is going to import chinese EVs??

Well, as it happens Polestar is doing well as a JV between Volvo and Geely. HQ is in Sweden, cars are produced in China. I see a few around me here in the UK now.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#55

Post by lawn »

tuwtuwtuwtuw wrote: post #4
nabla9 wrote: post #2

Small differences in labor law make all the difference. In Finland, Tesla repair shops follow the minimums stated in collective agreements and Musk probably don't even know about it. In Sweden it's issue for him. Finland has generally applicable collective agreements where employers should observe at least the provisions of a national collective agreement considered representative in the relevant sector. When a colle…

According to Tesla, the agreement which employees have in Sweden is already better than the minimum bar set by union, so Teslas issues appears to more out of principle than out of actual issues with the agreement itself. Or Tesla is lying and the agreement with employees is not actually better.

One issue with the work environment is that the workers get a 1 hour max time to find bugs. If they take longer than that they get a mark against them and may cause them to lose their job. This rewards workers who cheat and just send away the cars within the time constraint.

This is an example of something they want to fix.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#56

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #18
nabla9 wrote: post #2

Small differences in labor law make all the difference. In Finland, Tesla repair shops follow the minimums stated in collective agreements and Musk probably don't even know about it. In Sweden it's issue for him. Finland has generally applicable collective agreements where employers should observe at least the provisions of a national collective agreement considered representative in the relevant sector. When a colle…

At this point the famed Swedish model shows its limits, IMHO. > "It's about the Swedish collective agreement model, and there is a consensus on it, both politically and between the parties in the labour market, Seko's president Gabriella Lavecchia told Reuters by email. And yet this is not a legal obligation, as far as I understand, and Tesla is acting lawfully. So the model seems to be that there are unwritten rules…

> So the model seems that there are unwritten rules and that the whole country is allowed to club you into submission if you don't follow them.

You mean like rent and monopoly seeking and corporations try to buy politicians and eliminate competitors so they can force consumers into submission?

Looks like a case of using the power you have, like corporations do. Why do you take a dim view of collective action when capitalism is a system that is slanted toward rich corporations?

Also Musk here is typically full of shit: he makes various libertarian noises but Sweden's system is largely untouched by government, it's an understanding between larger corporations and workers (unions). Sweden even got an opt out from EU minimum wage laws to preserve this understanding. Musk should be rejoicing the unfettered capitalism, but in reality he just wants everything his own way, and thinks he can get it.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#57

Post by hiatus »

Novosell wrote: post #51
hiatus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am surprised that in this case Swedes value individual rights over their duty to the public.

Their "duty to the public" being to deliver license plates to Tesla? Really?

Their duty is to deliver mail is it not? Should mail carriers refuse to deliver political flyers because they disagree with the message??

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#59

Post by notaustinpowers »

cbeach wrote: post #46
ArchOversight wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are unwritten rules everywhere. The nice thing is that when the unions in Sweden do strike unlike in the US where maybe they will get some support, there is massive groundswell of support behind them to actually get the company to make a change. The fact that the whole country collectively agrees gives the workers far more power.

How does a country give workers more power? By creating a business-friendly environment. The more companies operate in your country, the more choice of employers. Treated badly? Go work for a competitor. That’s how you put pressure on companies to treat staff better.

Well, we see how that's going in America and it's a race to the bottom. 10 years experience, bachelor's degree required, starting pay of $35k/yr.

A society cannot rely on a business whose sole motivation is profitability to provide power to what they view as a liability, not an asset.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#60

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

jltsiren wrote: post #52
mytailorisrich wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point the famed Swedish model shows its limits, IMHO. > "It's about the Swedish collective agreement model, and there is a consensus on it, both politically and between the parties in the labour market, Seko's president Gabriella Lavecchia told Reuters by email. And yet this is not a legal obligation, as far as I understand, and Tesla is acting lawfully. So the model seems to be that there are unwritten rules…

Every culture has its own unwritten rules and customs. If you want to do business in a foreign culture, it's your responsibility to learn those customs and adapt to them. If you refuse to adapt and your business suffers because of the backlash, the cause of failure was your cultural insensitivity and/or ignorance.

> Every culture has its own unwritten rules and customs.

Many cultures have bribery as an unwritten rule and custom. Every official you run across is expecting a small bribe.

Should companies adopt that culture as well?

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