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Pricing in reverse: use a product's price to figure out what you need to build

ninjasandrobots.com

21–30 of 45 posts

Re: Pricing in reverse: use a product's price to figure out what you need to build

#21
Reminds me of something I'm coming up against with a physical product I'm selling online.

We started by creating our product, picking a price point, finding off-the-shelf packaging and going from there. End result is a box that's too large, costing us up to $25 to ship. Our product is currently priced at $95, including shipping anywhere in Australia. Already our sales are low due to the cost.

I'm starting to see value in picking an easy-to-ship product, or designing a product around ease and affordability of shipping.

Our next steps are: choosing a fixed-price postage satchel so we can maintain consistent postage ($11ish), having boxes custom-made that fit in that satchel (not much more expensive than what we're getting now) and then tweaking our product to fit those smaller boxes.

Re: Pricing in reverse: use a product's price to figure out what you need to build

#22
post #18
post #11

How does this make sense? It seems to be assuming that the conversion rate is independent of the product's price, the product's quality, and, perhaps even more crazily, what the product is and how it relates to the search term. Am I missing something obvious here?

Agreed. Basic econ theory predicts that if you hold all else equal and increase the price of a product, sales will drop. If the Google ads list the price of the item clearly, then perhaps the conversion rate won't suffer so much, as those who click through are mostly the subset of people who are willing to pay the higher price. But, if the ads do not list the price, then we have to assume that some fraction of those…

I think the author underwrote very conservative numbers. You can always adjust the math on your own. His reasoning is sound though.

IF you list the price in the ads, that would maybe explain the measly 1% CTR and high CPC's (Low Quality Score).

I have rarely seen a case where charging more didn't increase profits, even if you lose sales and get some bad clicks. (within the context of providing the perception of more value than the price.)

His point is simply, take the most expensive source of traffic online and underwrite to solve for the bottom line margins you need to advertise.

Re: Pricing in reverse: use a product's price to figure out what you need to build

#23
post #11

How does this make sense? It seems to be assuming that the conversion rate is independent of the product's price, the product's quality, and, perhaps even more crazily, what the product is and how it relates to the search term. Am I missing something obvious here?

I don't think so. I would think the technique of dividing CPC by the prospective conversion rate might be useful in determining ballpark costs for Adwords as one specific channel of marketing, but it's quite a leap in logic to say "this is what your product's price needs to be". The idea that a potential market can be understood through such a swift and simplistic means is taking the paradigm of Adwords testing to ab…

I think the OP meant that this is the bottom line margin you need.

As an Auction Marketplace, with highly motivated prospects, searching for what you offer, only a click and a buck away, and an extremely low barrier of entry, I would argue that Adwords is as close to an efficient marketplace as possible, and represents the high end of the cost per customer within the framework of profitability.

Re: Pricing in reverse: use a product's price to figure out what you need to build

#25
I don't think this is accurate at all.

Suppose you do have an ebook. Theoretically, certainly, you can find the price at which no consumers purchase your book, and the price at which nearly every consumer who sees your book purchases it. Thus you have a demand function. Optimize your demand function, and you have the ideal price for your book.

Sure, you can go backwards. Again, theoretically, peg a price, then write an ebook such that its demand curve results in your desired optimal price. Practically, it's impossible to measure potential consumer preferences and interest with much accuracy, but at least it starts you off thinking about what the consumer wants. And the more your consumer wants your product, the more demand shifts outward. I agree that this "backwards" model may be a beneficial mindset, because your product will already be optimized for consumer wants.

But why would you use Google AdWords as your measure of demand? I could spend a month writing a speed-reading ebook, create an search-engine-optimized website, and notify my friends. With $5/month hosting I already own, my cost structure is essentially zero. Every e-book I sell is pure profit, and I never touched AdWords.

The trick is optimizing AdWords spending. For every $1 I spend, will I gain $1 of revenue? If yes, keep spending until that's no longer true. Ceteris paribus, a $100 video course will generate more revenue per $1 of marketing spending than a $20 ebook, because you have 5x more chances to make the sale. That's too much of an abstraction, however. Maybe only 0.01% of click-throughs will be a $100 video course, but a solid 1% of click-throughs will buy a well-reviewed $20 ebook. So thus it's actually more profitable to advertise on Google AdWords

Perhaps a conversion rate of .015 is a decent ballpark for estimating AdWords revenue. But not total demand for the product.

Re: Pricing in reverse: use a product's price to figure out what you need to build

#26

I don't think this is accurate at all. Suppose you do have an ebook. Theoretically, certainly, you can find the price at which no consumers purchase your book, and the price at which nearly every consumer who sees your book purchases it. Thus you have a demand function. Optimize your demand function, and you have the ideal price for your book. Sure, you can go backwards. Again, theoretically, peg a price, then write…

"Optimize your demand function, and you have the ideal price for your book."

As Brilliant as that statement is, it reflects a limited mentality.

This post is arguing, "Optimize your product and demand function to have the ideal price."

Re: Pricing in reverse: use a product's price to figure out what you need to build

#27
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Basic econ theory predicts that if you hold all else equal and increase the price of a product, sales will drop. If the Google ads list the price of the item clearly, then perhaps the conversion rate won't suffer so much, as those who click through are mostly the subset of people who are willing to pay the higher price. But, if the ads do not list the price, then we have to assume that some fraction of those…

I think the author underwrote very conservative numbers. You can always adjust the math on your own. His reasoning is sound though. IF you list the price in the ads, that would maybe explain the measly 1% CTR and high CPC's (Low Quality Score). I have rarely seen a case where charging more didn't increase profits, even if you lose sales and get some bad clicks. (within the context of providing the perception of more…

> "take the most expensive source of traffic online and underwrite to solve for the bottom line margins you need to advertise."

Sure, but if you assume away all other sources of traffic, you're finding a break-even price. The reason this might actually make you profitable is because you've got nearly-pure profit flowing in from "free" sources: word-of-mouth, organic search engine results, good reviews, etc.

Which means your price may be much lower than optimal, if your book appeals to an audience with lots of disposable income. Or, perhaps, only people searching for "speed reading" on Google will actually buy a book about it, and no one else in the world cares enough to spend $20 on improving such a skill. And your price may be far too high to be profitable. There's a ton of selection bias in using Google AdWords as your baseline.

Plus, you discount 2.5k searches for "how to speed read," 2k searches of "how to read faster," and 1k for "speed reading techniques". You can't easily add them to the formula, since they all have different conversion rates. Users searching for "how to speed read" will be far more receptive to a ebook about speed reading than someone searching for "speed reading" in general.

Re: Pricing in reverse: use a product's price to figure out what you need to build

#28

I don't think this is accurate at all. Suppose you do have an ebook. Theoretically, certainly, you can find the price at which no consumers purchase your book, and the price at which nearly every consumer who sees your book purchases it. Thus you have a demand function. Optimize your demand function, and you have the ideal price for your book. Sure, you can go backwards. Again, theoretically, peg a price, then write…

"Optimize your demand function, and you have the ideal price for your book." As Brilliant as that statement is, it reflects a limited mentality. This post is arguing, "Optimize your product and demand function to have the ideal price."

Exactly! That's a great way of summarizing the "backwards" mindset.

It occurs to me that an ebook has a completely elastic supply curve, so the optimization of the demand curve is the equilibrium price.

Re: Pricing in reverse: use a product's price to figure out what you need to build

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the author underwrote very conservative numbers. You can always adjust the math on your own. His reasoning is sound though. IF you list the price in the ads, that would maybe explain the measly 1% CTR and high CPC's (Low Quality Score). I have rarely seen a case where charging more didn't increase profits, even if you lose sales and get some bad clicks. (within the context of providing the perception of more…

> "take the most expensive source of traffic online and underwrite to solve for the bottom line margins you need to advertise." Sure, but if you assume away all other sources of traffic, you're finding a break-even price. The reason this might actually make you profitable is because you've got nearly-pure profit flowing in from "free" sources: word-of-mouth, organic search engine results, good reviews, etc. Which mea…

I agree in practice this formula is not very practical. It is however a good place to start in getting a picture of what it takes to buy customers in your industry. (Bear in mind the author is talking about math before ever building your product.)

Re: Pricing in reverse: use a product's price to figure out what you need to build

#30
post #11

How does this make sense? It seems to be assuming that the conversion rate is independent of the product's price, the product's quality, and, perhaps even more crazily, what the product is and how it relates to the search term. Am I missing something obvious here?

Yeah, you are. The assumption is you wouldn't try to sell an e-book for $102 (it says this explicitly) and you wouldn't try to sell fertilizer on the e-book advertisement (it doesn't say this, but it is common sense.). It is also assumed that we aren't making a shoddy product, nor something earth shattering.

The article is suggesting you use adwords demand compared to your expected optimal product price to determine if that market is over or under served.

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