Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in • Hacker News Board

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#281

Post by yxhuvud » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

carlosjobim wrote: post #204

sampo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If union membership is really the way of life in Sweden, is there anything preventing the government from a legislative solution? Nordic countries actually have relatively weak labour laws. What might be handled in legislation in US (e.g. minimum wage), is handled in collective bargaining agreements, that are negotiated between trade unions and employers' associations. And the trade unions and the employers' associ…

It's a very sweet deal for the unions and for large employers. The unions make sure to collectively "bargain" each year for extremely low pay raises and even for nominal pay cuts for their members. In exchange the large employers force every employee to sign up for union membership. Sometimes the company itself signs the employee to the union, without any consent from the individual. In exchange the unions get to col…

What? The same laws that protect workers from being fired for being in a union keep them from being involuntary joined to a union or any other association unless they want to. Freedom of association is very strong in Swedish law.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#282

Post by alwi3j54liaw3j » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #103

eckesicle wrote: post #25

> Postal workers even decided not to deliver mail to the electric automaker, including license plates – an action that Musk called "insane". The local court has since put a stop to that action. This is no longer true. A higher court overturned that decision and the license plates are again blocked from reaching Tesla.

Allowing the government owned post office to pick and choose who gets mail just seems like a step too far. But even then the court wasn't forcing them to deliver mail, just allowing that mail to be picked up. And now that's blocked? I just don't understand how one entity can have this much power, in this case they essentially are the government they could demand whatever the hell they wanted. Your choice is to leave…

This isn't an agency-level decision. It's large numbers of individual postal workers not going to Tesla addresses.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#283

Post by vaidhy » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:16 PM UTC

It is interesting to read the comments. Why do some americans view the strike action in a black/white perspective?

If you define a strike very narrowly as to stop work with (partial) loss of pay, then this does not make sense. But a strike can be against one entity, one action or even one person. The workers can say "I will not do this action" and that is a strike too.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#284

Post by alwi3j54liaw3j » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:16 PM UTC

s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: post #121

Maybe - just maybe - Tesla should just give in instead of destroying their brand in the Nordics, which is what they are doing. The workers are in charge, and they are also the ones buying Teslas (Yes Americans, in Sweden/Denmark/Norway Teslas are affordable enough for normal people who are in unions because they are paid correctly). Maybe it's a good idea not to destroy your entire market while also destroying the me…

The new Volvo EVs are actually really nice.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#285

Post by othorns » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:16 PM UTC

1970-01-01 wrote: post #183

brightball wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, I honestly just hope the standoff continues because I want to see how many moves each side has. This is really interesting to watch as somebody who isn't affected by it directly. Government workers deciding not to provide services to specific entities or people they are in dispute with is a bridge that I can only assume should have some pretty serious consequences.

The sad truth is there is plenty of room for Musk to make things much worse. I imagine he can deny them SpaceX payloads. Starlink was just made available to them as well. He could throttle or deny their uplinks and downlinks.

Starlink is such a niche product in Sweden, it would be such a pointless move that would go by totally without notice. The vast majority of Sweden is covered by 4G and 90% 5G coverage is excpeted within a year. Broadband via fiber is ubiquitous and a lot cheaper than the USA (at least in the comparisons I've seen).

Can't speak about spacex not sure if any Swedish companies do business with them.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#286

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:16 PM UTC

fellerts wrote: post #178

mfi wrote: post #117

> "In the light of the conflict now spreading to Denmark as well as Tesla's recent very categorical refusal to enter a labour union agreement in any country, we have come to the conclusion that we as investors at present hardly can influence the company," the pension fund said in an emailed statement. ... That is why we're now putting Tesla on our exclusion list, ..." PensionDanmark, one of Denmark's largest pension…

I wonder if Norway will pull out of Tesla as well. The Norwegian Pension Fund currently owns 0.87%. Side-note, all its equities are publicly available: https://www.nbim.no/no/oljefondet/investeringene/#/

I will say there are a lot of teslas in Norway. For years they were one of the most popular cars sold due to generous tax breaks.

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-model-y-wins-crushing...

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#287

Post by belltaco » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:17 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #218

belltaco wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only reason they have leverage is the law that gives Postnord a monopoly on delivering license plates Is that a law or an exclusive contract between the government and PostNord, given after bidding and a tender process as they call it in Europe and Asian countries? I think it's a contract, and contracts have exclusions in cases of forces majeures like strikes. Since the Transport Agency is required by law to pr…

> contracts have exclusions in cases of forces majeures like strikes Tesla can't call force majeure on a contract it isn't party to. If the Swedish government wanted to break the strike, it can--trivially. There is simply zero political will to do so.

The Swedish Transport Agency is required by law to provide plates. If it cannot fulfil its duties because of a force majeur event then it would be expected to explore alternatives like allowing plates to be picked up at the factory, which is not forbidden by law. It might be forbidden by the contract with PostNord, but PostNord is undergoing a force majeure so it cannot object to it.

> If the Swedish government wanted to break the strike, it can--trivially. There is simply zero political will to do so.

That won't be breaking the strike if plates are allowed to be picked up. If the government does not want to follow Swedish law and their duties, then the courts should force it to do so.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#288

Post by oh_sigh » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:17 PM UTC

jsiepkes wrote: post #77

toxik wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and they don’t. The workers do.

Should a mail worker be able to decide who gets their mail and who don't? For example as a mail worker should I be able to opt out from delivering mail to politicians whose political statements I find deplorable?

Compare and contrast the reception Swedish mail workers are getting for their behavior, versus Kim Davis, who refused to issue an otherwise non-problematic marriage license(which was part of her job).

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#289

Post by wyager » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:18 PM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #273

wyager wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not a problem when government employees are required to do their job.

Required by who ? What is this entity that compels government employees to work? Is it Tesla? If so why? Or is it their citizens, who are by and large supportive of this movement?

> What is this entity that compels government employees to work?

Typically the entity that compels employees to to their job (or be fired) is their employer. That is, in fact, the defining relationship between employees and employers.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#290

Post by Hamuko » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:18 PM UTC

lawn wrote: post #228

timwaagh wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not for a second believe ordinary workers can outright buy Teslas in Sweden or Denmark.

Loans are easy to get. Plenty of "regular workers" here drive around expensive cars.

And a family might not have more than a single car, so it might be two adults paying for a single car. We only had a single car in the family when I was growing up.