Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in • Hacker News Board

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#271

Post by lefstathiou » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:14 PM UTC

mfi wrote: post #117

> "In the light of the conflict now spreading to Denmark as well as Tesla's recent very categorical refusal to enter a labour union agreement in any country, we have come to the conclusion that we as investors at present hardly can influence the company," the pension fund said in an emailed statement. ... That is why we're now putting Tesla on our exclusion list, ..." PensionDanmark, one of Denmark's largest pension…

I don't see that PensionDanmark files 13f filings so it is hard to confirm their holdings. None of the 128 EDGAR filings that reference them pertain to Tesla. It's possible their holdings are through an inter-broker dealer which would be strange for a national pension fund but possible.

The Swedish National Pension Fund had about 500k of TSLA shares as of their latest 13f.

Source: https://capedge.com/company/1318605/TSLA/institutional-owner...

DISCLAIMER: our company owns CapEdge.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#272

Post by logifail » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:14 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #218

belltaco wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only reason they have leverage is the law that gives Postnord a monopoly on delivering license plates Is that a law or an exclusive contract between the government and PostNord, given after bidding and a tender process as they call it in Europe and Asian countries? I think it's a contract, and contracts have exclusions in cases of forces majeures like strikes. Since the Transport Agency is required by law to pr…

> contracts have exclusions in cases of forces majeures like strikes Tesla can't call force majeure on a contract it isn't party to. If the Swedish government wanted to break the strike, it can--trivially. There is simply zero political will to do so.

> Tesla can't call force majeure on a contract it isn't party to

Yet Scandinavian workers seem to be able to join in on disputes they aren't party to.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#273

Post by nemothekid » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:14 PM UTC

wyager wrote: post #261

manuelabeledo wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Allowing the government owned post office to pick and choose who gets mail just seems like a step too far. The government isn't doing this, workers are. Wouldn't it be more problematic if the government stepped in and forced the hand against their workers, and in favour of a private company like Tesla?

No, it's not a problem when government employees are required to do their job.

Required by who? What is this entity that compels government employees to work? Is it Tesla? If so why? Or is it their citizens, who are by and large supportive of this movement?

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#274

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:14 PM UTC

logifail wrote: post #272

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> contracts have exclusions in cases of forces majeures like strikes Tesla can't call force majeure on a contract it isn't party to. If the Swedish government wanted to break the strike, it can--trivially. There is simply zero political will to do so.

> Tesla can't call force majeure on a contract it isn't party to Yet Scandinavian workers seem to be able to join in on disputes they aren't party to.

> Yet Scandinavian workers seem to be able to join in on disputes they aren't party to

Yes, there is a difference between association and contract. (As well as not doing something versus forcing someone to.)

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#275

Post by tlb » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

wyager wrote: post #258

mfi wrote: post #117

> "In the light of the conflict now spreading to Denmark as well as Tesla's recent very categorical refusal to enter a labour union agreement in any country, we have come to the conclusion that we as investors at present hardly can influence the company," the pension fund said in an emailed statement. ... That is why we're now putting Tesla on our exclusion list, ..." PensionDanmark, one of Denmark's largest pension…

Anyone know of an ETF that buys stocks excluded by activist funds?

You're almost always better off buying individual stocks yourself. You can optimize your return in various ways, like tax loss harvesting to offset capital gains from other sources like stock options. There are cheap robo-advisors that can do this even with small amounts.

Also, you might agree with some activist fund exclusions, like tobacco or gambling.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#276

Post by mattlutze » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

eddtries wrote: post #129

s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: post #121

Maybe - just maybe - Tesla should just give in instead of destroying their brand in the Nordics, which is what they are doing. The workers are in charge, and they are also the ones buying Teslas (Yes Americans, in Sweden/Denmark/Norway Teslas are affordable enough for normal people who are in unions because they are paid correctly). Maybe it's a good idea not to destroy your entire market while also destroying the me…

They will have to give in or close shop. Simply two options available. Musk is pretty irrational when it comes to backing down so I suspect the latter. I was just about to buy a new Tesla when this kicked off and don’t fancy the risk of having a car I can’t service, so shopped around and discovered other EVs can be just as good with better build quality nowadays! So that’s a nice outcome for me.

It's a bit shocking, as Sweden is one of Tesla's most mature and highest-density markets in Europe.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#277

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

mxsjoberg wrote: post #175

s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: post #121

Maybe - just maybe - Tesla should just give in instead of destroying their brand in the Nordics, which is what they are doing. The workers are in charge, and they are also the ones buying Teslas (Yes Americans, in Sweden/Denmark/Norway Teslas are affordable enough for normal people who are in unions because they are paid correctly). Maybe it's a good idea not to destroy your entire market while also destroying the me…

> Maybe Tesla is the problem here. No, this is an issue for other smaller companies too (with less media coverage) > Maybe the rest of the world needs to catch up to the societal norms of Sweden when it comes to worker's rights. I hope not. I kind of want a flying car ASAP. Not never.

[deleted]

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#278

Post by lawn » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

diego_sandoval wrote: post #210

eddtries wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will have to give in or close shop. Simply two options available. Musk is pretty irrational when it comes to backing down so I suspect the latter. I was just about to buy a new Tesla when this kicked off and don’t fancy the risk of having a car I can’t service, so shopped around and discovered other EVs can be just as good with better build quality nowadays! So that’s a nice outcome for me.

> Musk is pretty irrational when it comes to backing down What from the outside looks "irrational", from the inside may look like "not compromising on principles". Money is not the main variable that Musk is trying to maximize at this point.

> not compromising on principles

Not compromising on free speech worked well... Until he started banning journalists from Twitter.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#279

Post by jakderrida » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

appleskeptic wrote: post #171

jakderrida wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, that doesn't sound so bad. In practice, what you're advocating are violent strikes that never end.

Violent strikers should go to jail.

It's pathetic how your position on violent strikebreakers is so lenient that you don't even feel them worth mentioning. Sort of a testament to how effective American brainwashing is.

It's equally pathetic that you think the role of the state is to expend unlimited funds to keep the enemies of private enterprises incarcerated, even when it would cost us all far more than adopting an enlightened policy regarding collective bargaining.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#280

Post by encom » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

timwaagh wrote: post #190

s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: post #121

Maybe - just maybe - Tesla should just give in instead of destroying their brand in the Nordics, which is what they are doing. The workers are in charge, and they are also the ones buying Teslas (Yes Americans, in Sweden/Denmark/Norway Teslas are affordable enough for normal people who are in unions because they are paid correctly). Maybe it's a good idea not to destroy your entire market while also destroying the me…

I do not for a second believe ordinary workers can outright buy Teslas in Sweden or Denmark.

I'm not sure what's the definition of an "ordinary worker", but as an electrician in Denmark I could absolutely have a Tesla if I wanted to. Which I don't, I really like my Leaf.