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Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

theregister.com

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Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#261

Post by wyager »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #242
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing the government owned post office to pick and choose who gets mail just seems like a step too far. But even then the court wasn't forcing them to deliver mail, just allowing that mail to be picked up. And now that's blocked? I just don't understand how one entity can have this much power, in this case they essentially are the government they could demand whatever the hell they wanted. Your choice is to leave…

> Allowing the government owned post office to pick and choose who gets mail just seems like a step too far. The government isn't doing this, workers are. Wouldn't it be more problematic if the government stepped in and forced the hand against their workers, and in favour of a private company like Tesla?

No, it's not a problem when government employees are required to do their job.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#262

Post by BobaFloutist »

throwawa14223 wrote: post #134
slantedview wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opt-in by default. Not all unions are great, but the median unionized worker earns more than a non-unionized worker in the same field. So the main reason people wouldn't want to join a union is because they've been conditioned to think they're bad, against their own economic interests.

I feel like you're reducing everything to material conditions. Joining a union would (statistically) help me economically but my objections to being in a union again are all moral convictions. Perhaps workers are optimizing for concerns you do not share?

Is your moral objection that you're opposed to improved material conditions?

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#264

Post by throwawa14223 »

wharvle wrote: post #229
throwawa14223 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people the owners of the company have selected to run the company on their behalf are directly related to a company. I fail to see the similarity.

It’s a legally required body for many companies. It’s being imposed by law. Same as required unions would be.

I've never been forced to become a member of a corporate board. This proposal however is that I be required to join a union. That is the material difference.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#265

Post by nemothekid »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #103
eckesicle wrote: post #25

> Postal workers even decided not to deliver mail to the electric automaker, including license plates – an action that Musk called "insane". The local court has since put a stop to that action. This is no longer true. A higher court overturned that decision and the license plates are again blocked from reaching Tesla.

Allowing the government owned post office to pick and choose who gets mail just seems like a step too far. But even then the court wasn't forcing them to deliver mail, just allowing that mail to be picked up. And now that's blocked? I just don't understand how one entity can have this much power, in this case they essentially are the government they could demand whatever the hell they wanted. Your choice is to leave…

>I just don't understand how one entity can have this much power, in this case they essentially are the government they could demand whatever the hell they wanted.

When you zoom out and look at the actors involved, this isn't all that strange. This is a strike - if the citizens of a country don't want to do business with a certain entity isn't that how the government, ideally, should work? Citizens should be able to demand whatever the hell they wanted; otherwise who does the government work for?

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#266

Post by Hamuko »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #183
brightball wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, I honestly just hope the standoff continues because I want to see how many moves each side has. This is really interesting to watch as somebody who isn't affected by it directly. Government workers deciding not to provide services to specific entities or people they are in dispute with is a bridge that I can only assume should have some pretty serious consequences.

The sad truth is there is plenty of room for Musk to make things much worse. I imagine he can deny them SpaceX payloads. Starlink was just made available to them as well. He could throttle or deny their uplinks and downlinks.

Does Starlink matter at all in Sweden? I've always assumed they have robust Internet connectivity and 4G/5G like we do in Finland.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#267

Post by lawn »

carlosjobim wrote: post #239
lawn wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In exchange the large employers force every employee to sign up for union membership. Sometimes the company itself signs the employee to the union, without any consent from the individual. This is not the case in Sweden. Maybe in the US?

I know for a matter of fact that it is the case in Sweden with some employers. They'll sign you up for the union without your consent and without informing you. Then the union in their turn will sign you up with insurance companies and other third parties without consent of information. Just a bill suddenly arriving in your mail that you have to pay.

Never heard of that and that's not legal.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#268

Post by lholoubek »

bborud wrote: post #66

This is a brilliant opportunity to learn about the Nordic Model and the interaction between government, unions and employers. (Somehow I doubt Elon Musk bothered understanding what he was getting himself into here. This could get really ugly)

Don't forget there are also interactions with consumers, who will now be deprived of the ability to purchase Tesla products. Alternatives include buying from Volvo, a Chinese-owned company who only recently got a few middling EV options to market. Consumers in Sweden may be fine having their purchasing options diminished out of solidarity with the union, but these actions do have consequences for consumers.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#269

Post by belltaco »

thecopy wrote: post #224
belltaco wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only reason they have leverage is the law that gives Postnord a monopoly on delivering license plates Is that a law or an exclusive contract between the government and PostNord, given after bidding and a tender process as they call it in Europe and Asian countries? I think it's a contract, and contracts have exclusions in cases of forces majeures like strikes. Since the Transport Agency is required by law to pr…

Its a law

Given that PostNord is jointly owned by the Swedish and Danish governments but is not a government agency, it's strange that there would be a law that exclusively forces the Swedish government to use PostNord.

There's also nothing in the law that states that plates have to be mailed and cannot be picked up, that's a operational decision by the Transport Agency. It's required by law to provide plates so it will be interesting to see how this turns out.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#270

Post by wil421 »

eddtries wrote: post #132
masklinn wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If union membership is really the way of life in Sweden, is there anything preventing the government from a legislative solution? Just mandate collective agreements? The entire point of the german / Nordic union model is that by avoiding legislative action they can be more nimble and reactive to changes. Companies and unions don’t want legislation, and the governments are perfectly happy to let them handle things l…

> plays ball Which is the case for 99% of companies. It’s only American ones internationally expanding who don’t realise other economies operate differently that get stung with this.

Why does everyone complain like it is an American issue? It’s an Elon issue, he hates unions and does it very publicly.

For decades, Ford and others have factories in Europe and have union members.

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