Striking should be legal, but firing employees for striking should also be legal.
In theory, that doesn't sound so bad. In practice, what you're advocating are violent strikes that never end.
Violent strikers should go to jail.
Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in
171–180 of 541 posts
Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would you abridge my freedom of association by forcing me to be part of a group I have no desire to join?
You’re exactly as forced as people are forced to have a job.
I believe you are arguing I could always choose not to work. I wish to work for an employer and the employer wishes to work with me. In this hypothetical there is required membership with an unrelated party I do not wish to associate with.
If I wanted to go to a coffee shop and that shop wanted to serve me coffee but the mafia is standing outside saying I have to pay them before I can go in, they are in fact forcing me to pay or turn away.
Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in
#173Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in
#174It's quite interesting. They have proxy legal systems in these countries: the unions. Since the union "strikes" are not the same as traditional strikes that I know of, they can sustain the strike much longer. Rather than strikes where workers don't work and don't get paid (and must be compensated from union dues), these strikes involve the majority of workers continuing to work and just shunning one or two companies…
If organizations (the unions) deciding not to do business with you is, by your definition, a “proxy legal system,” what do we have in the US? Proxy legal system of credit agencies and corporations? I’d take the unions I think.
One must read the whole thing to understand it. If certain organizations can just choose to not do business with you and the de jure system says that the only way to get a legally required document is through those organizations, then those organizations are a proxy legal system.
This does not seem particularly controversial to me. Yes, credit agencies and banking approximate such a proxy in the US but the limits of such a system in the US were tested when marijuana and pornography sellers were able to find a way to bank despite the rest of the system attempting to stop them.
Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in
#175Maybe - just maybe - Tesla should just give in instead of destroying their brand in the Nordics, which is what they are doing. The workers are in charge, and they are also the ones buying Teslas (Yes Americans, in Sweden/Denmark/Norway Teslas are affordable enough for normal people who are in unions because they are paid correctly). Maybe it's a good idea not to destroy your entire market while also destroying the me…
> Maybe Tesla is the problem here.
No, this is an issue for other smaller companies too (with less media coverage)
> Maybe the rest of the world needs to catch up to the societal norms of Sweden when it comes to worker's rights.
I hope not. I kind of want a flying car ASAP. Not never.
Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
Ahhh Sweden, where Volvo never was created because there were unions there. I remember... /s
Stockholm ranks very high for Unicorns per Capita which most people don't seem to be aware of. Some sources say it's just under the Bay Area. Certainly there are many for a small country. Spotify, Klana, Tink, Northvolt, Kry, Einride, Voi, H2 Green Steel, etc...
The other notable thing is many of these are in the green energy space which Tesla will want to be part of. Northern Sweden has Europes largest deposit of rare minerals required for green batteries which are heavy and awkward to move around, so having access to those in Germany would be huge for Tesla down the line. Also, as mining becomes more targeted by climate crackdowns, Sweden is globally leading at carbon-neutral green mining.
There's loooooads of innovation in the green space in Sweden and avoiding this for a couple hundred technicians pensions is just insane to me.
Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in
#177Maybe - just maybe - Tesla should just give in instead of destroying their brand in the Nordics, which is what they are doing. The workers are in charge, and they are also the ones buying Teslas (Yes Americans, in Sweden/Denmark/Norway Teslas are affordable enough for normal people who are in unions because they are paid correctly). Maybe it's a good idea not to destroy your entire market while also destroying the me…
You keep saying “maybe”. Tesla is the problem. It’s a good idea to not destroy your market and the means to facilitate. More workers rights are needed by the rest of the world. Own your opinions, maybe.
I have a strong suspicion that OP is using 'maybe' as a rhetorical device in this case, and is not actually hedging their statements.
Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in
#178> "In the light of the conflict now spreading to Denmark as well as Tesla's recent very categorical refusal to enter a labour union agreement in any country, we have come to the conclusion that we as investors at present hardly can influence the company," the pension fund said in an emailed statement. ... That is why we're now putting Tesla on our exclusion list, ..." PensionDanmark, one of Denmark's largest pension…
I wonder if Norway will pull out of Tesla as well. The Norwegian Pension Fund currently owns 0.87%. Side-note, all its equities are publicly available: https://www.nbim.no/no/oljefondet/investeringene/#/
Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re exactly as forced as people are forced to have a job.
I believe you are arguing I could always choose not to work. I wish to work for an employer and the employer wishes to work with me. In this hypothetical there is required membership with an unrelated party I do not wish to associate with. If I wanted to go to a coffee shop and that shop wanted to serve me coffee but the mafia is standing outside saying I have to pay them before I can go in, they are in fact forcing…
The party’s not unrelated.
Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe you are arguing I could always choose not to work. I wish to work for an employer and the employer wishes to work with me. In this hypothetical there is required membership with an unrelated party I do not wish to associate with. If I wanted to go to a coffee shop and that shop wanted to serve me coffee but the mafia is standing outside saying I have to pay them before I can go in, they are in fact forcing…
The party’s not unrelated.
Yes, in both cases.