Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#861

Post by smashah » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 2:09 AM UTC

xinayder wrote: post #774

smashah wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please read this: https://gist.github.com/smashah/667d4d5cf31670ee87547450861a... The game being played here is poker. If they call beeper's bluff then they risk setting a whole industry wide precedent that interop supercedes ToS (that's the only angle). As it stands, ToS based C&D for interop is untested afaik. We as a community need to discuss ToS-trolling and fight against it.

This doesn't hold up. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/9966 https://github.com/libresignal/libresignal/issues/37 unless the EU rushes out their legislation that interop is not grounds for terminating someone's account, I'm sorry, but they can do whatever they want to with their app. Would you feel happy if someone used your home network to seed torrents? Using your bandwidth to seed them?

Terminating accounts is fair game. Billion dollar companies making legal threats to OSS devs is another.

I can kick said person off my network. It shouldn't be grounds for me to go and start legal proceedings against the developers of uTorrent.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#862

Post by smashah » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 2:12 AM UTC

rezonant wrote: post #797

smashah wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. After receiving a C&D from Meta for my OSS project (along with some other maintainers from some other projects) I strongly believe adversarial interop is a basic digital right that is required to fulfil the broken or revoked promises of web 2.0 If you know anybody that can help please let me know because I want to get back to maintaining the project.

What is the project? On what grounds did they C&D you?

Here's a write up of the legal threats timeline to our projects and how it coincides with their in house development of an npm package:

https://gist.github.com/smashah/667d4d5cf31670ee87547450861a...

They sent us C&Ds based on ToS.

Meta has done this before to insta and android devs.

Some never came back to their projects. It causes insane amount of stress and depression amongst the devs I've spoken with who went through the same thing.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#863

Post by averageRoyalty » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 2:31 AM UTC

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #853

averageRoyalty wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I hear Android manufacturers and app developers are very encouraging of unlocked bootloaders and user root access. It's not 2008 anymore, we're all in walled gardens now.

Many people still buy Androids exactly because you can still flash different roms.

Agreed, and I'm one of them. However flagship devices have been neutered, and core (for many peoples lives) apps require significant compromise.

Whilst there are edge cases, the majority of Android users are effectively within a walled garden, which the opposite used to be one of its strongest appeals.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#864

Post by omeid2 » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 2:32 AM UTC

rezonant wrote: post #846

redserk wrote: post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t uncommon at all when dealing with development that requires interoperability. Far from it, actually. If a part of your user base uses another service, you’ll inevitably have to add workarounds specifically to cater to users for that service. It’s just a fact of life when multiple groups have to implement a spec. If you aren’t willing to add workarounds, users will think your software is broken when they sh…

Not free, but worth it for messaging to solve the real pain points that iMessage and Google Messages users deal with while trying to communicate across the aisle.

You're free to make value judgments, but for a business to follow through, the economics of it must be sensible. As a consumer, I prefer a secure messaging platform over an open one any day of the week.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#865

Post by PrimeMcFly » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 3:54 AM UTC

averageRoyalty wrote: post #863

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people still buy Androids exactly because you can still flash different roms.

Agreed, and I'm one of them. However flagship devices have been neutered, and core (for many peoples lives) apps require significant compromise. Whilst there are edge cases, the majority of Android users are effectively within a walled garden, which the opposite used to be one of its strongest appeals.

I'd still say it's not a walled garden, as long as you can install f-droid or the amazon app store. I can still access port, torrents, install a rel alt browser etc. It's a significantly less walled garden.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#866

Post by lxgr » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 3:57 AM UTC

LocalH wrote: post #854

Spoom wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The component that tries to identify that you're accessing it from the right device isn't DRM? I don't think courts would agree with that.

It's not done for the purposes of content protection/DRM. There may be other laws it falls under, but I don't think the DMCA is one.

Interestingly, the reference implementation does seem to reference FairPlay, which is very much a copy prevention/anti-circumvention system (used for iTunes content, but also video encryption via HTML EME): https://github.com/JJTech0130/pypush/blob/main/albert.py

Assuming that DMCA does not cover API authentication (i.e. preventing unauthorized third-party clients from being able to access a server-side API – and I really don't know if it does or doesn't!), I wonder what the implications are if the same mechanism is used for both DMCA-covered DRM mechanisms, but also non-covered other purposes.

My intuition would be that it can't be good to "multi-purpose" a DRM tool from a DMCA enforcement point of view, but maybe that was never Apple's plan, and they just used the most secure attestation technology they had available on each platform, which for Intel Macs might just have been software-only FairPlay.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#867

Post by rattray » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 6:15 AM UTC

dwaite wrote: post #771

rattray wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently paid >$1000 for the privilege of access to iMessage when switching from Android to iPhone. I'd have been _much_ happier staying on my preferred operating system and paying $24/yr. (iMessage has, for me, actually been worth it - but still, I frequently find myself wishing that something like Beeper Mini existed so I could go back to android).

You switched from Android _just_ for iMessage? Why on earth for? Could you elaborate?

For both social and work life it's an important way of communicating for many people.

Some people are just a little less quick to message you back if you're a green bubble or ask to use WhatsApp, especially in certain circles.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#868

Post by kortilla » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 6:56 AM UTC

dwaite wrote: post #771

rattray wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently paid >$1000 for the privilege of access to iMessage when switching from Android to iPhone. I'd have been _much_ happier staying on my preferred operating system and paying $24/yr. (iMessage has, for me, actually been worth it - but still, I frequently find myself wishing that something like Beeper Mini existed so I could go back to android).

You switched from Android _just_ for iMessage? Why on earth for? Could you elaborate?

In many circles in the US, it is the way to communicate. You just end up left out of “fun” group chats where people want to use iMessage features and then end up left out of actual events because people forgot to invite in the greenie group.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#869

Post by satiric » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 10:27 AM UTC

Don't wait until I've given you access to my Google account to tell me that it's a paid service... that's just scummy and a fantastic way to lose me as a customer. Seen a lot of hype around this, but please at least be transparent.

To be clear, I'm not surprised it's a paid service, and I think it's reasonable to pay for this. It just leaves a sour taste in my mouth that could have been easily avoided.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#870

Post by ric2b » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 10:48 AM UTC

averageRoyalty wrote: post #849

midasz wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the Netherlands and I know plenty of people who have iPhones but I also know (and am) plenty people with androids. People use either WhatsApp or Telegram. Isn't iMessage just texting within a walled garden?

> Isn't iMessage just texting within a walled garden? Isn't that exactly what WhatsApp (and to a lesser extent) Telegram are?

They run on basically any confumer device, so no.